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hey everybody Welcome to a very special

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episode this is the 100th episode of UAP

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studies podcast Jason at the time has

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flown by what a lot of work man it's

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been a ton of work and uh I can't

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believe that we've made it this far at

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100 episodes we were talking about

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earlier how uh you know most podcasts

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they start and if you could get past the

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seventh episode you're most likely to

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succeed in continuing podcasting but a

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lot of people quit at the seventh

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episode we perceive we've persevered and

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we made it to a hundred and I really

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hope we make it to another 100 because

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this has been a heck of a ride and we

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have a guest fitting of this ceremonial

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anniversary episode we're super excited

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to chat with him in just a moment here

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we're also going to raise a glass to all

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of our viewers and listeners and all the

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guests who've made UAP studies podcast a

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success so stay with us for a very

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special episode of UAP studies podcast

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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welcome back to our very special 100th

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episode my name is Louis Borges joining

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me as always my good friend in

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illustrious co-host Mr Jason gilmette

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how are you I'm doing great I can't

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believe that we made it to 100 episodes

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this is a lot of work man what a lot of

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work the average podcast fails in seven

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episodes or less that's right yeah you

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know nobody listens you get discouraged

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you figure what am I doing all this for

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you put your heart and soul into it as

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most podcasters do so it's very

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difficult to weather that storm and you

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know get good quality guests when you

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don't have any good quality guests and I

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think it comes down to the the guests

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the viewers and the hard work that went

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into it or we wouldn't be here right so

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yeah and I mean what a guest we have for

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a 100th episode we couldn't be any more

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honored uh to have somebody as esteemed

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as this gentleman here and um yeah I

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mean we want to introduce Mr Jacque

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Valley but I want everyone to understand

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that Jacques is not just a UFO author

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wrote A Few blogs here and there and

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even people that know him I think would

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be surprised at some of the things he's

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actually involved with uh and I have

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them here so obviously we know he was an

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early internet Pioneer a scientist an

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author an astronomer an inventor an

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engineer he developed one of the first

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computerized maps of Mars for NASA in a

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time where that's not an easy thing to

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do you know worked on an early

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information center called arpanet which

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is basically the precursor to the modern

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day internet and messaging As We Know It

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uh worked alongside people like Jay Alan

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heineck he was the chair of astronomy

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and Northwestern University early AI

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research these worked at the Stanford

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University's Plasma Research Institute

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later on became a venture capitalist and

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started helping companies with really

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crazy ideas to actually bring that to

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fruition and 14 of them went to IPO and

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became you know like publicly traded

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some of these inventions are insane like

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the CyberKnife which was used for cancer

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procedures Imaging Electronics

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nanotechnology for optic networks

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regeneration Technologies and even his

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lab handy Labs with their transformative

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oncology technology so not just a

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ufologist a man with a brain bigger than

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we can possibly tap and we're super

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stoked to have Mr Jacques Philly on the

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show so please welcome

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thank you very much but you know many of

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the things that you've mentioned

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um you know are true that they were it's

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always a team you know I think that's

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the lesson that I've learned in Silicon

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Valley you know the you have you have

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inventors you have people in the

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background who get the capital and put

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the structures together and so on and it

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it takes it it takes an entire team and

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you know that Cycles back to you know

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the study of UFOs or uaps you know where

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are the teams right we we need if we're

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serious in the next you know next uh

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step Next Generation we need to we need

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to do it not with a couple of bright

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people with ideas but we need to build

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to really build serious teams do you

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think with um because uh with the

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Galileo project this is sort of a shift

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in that mentality that we you know the

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scientists are starting to take it

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seriously and they're teaming up for it

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yes yes definitely but I'm you know

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certainly very grateful

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to have lived long enough to see to see

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that and to see the stigma removed

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because I think of you know what what Dr

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heineck would have given what uh Dr

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McDonald you know Jim McDonald would

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have given uh my old you know mentors or

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maybe Michelle and in France and so on

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would have given to see this day where

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the the subject is recognized as you

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know worthy of serious scientific

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research uh you know all my life uh you

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know I've been you know an outlaw it's

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not an outcast you know working with my

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own resources doing this and and in

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association with a number of people who

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taught me that Technologies I needed to

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to master to to do what I wanted to do

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but uh you know it's been pretty lonely

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in many of the these cases the the

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mainstream of ufology just thought I was

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crazy I mean look at I spoke to Magonia

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you know was was an example where people

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said you know valet has gone off the

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deep end with this this thing about the

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little people

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the legends from the Middle Ages but we

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now know that the subject didn't start

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you know at Roswell in 1947 that there

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were cases before as you know Trinity

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was two years before and people haven't

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realized that yet and of course we have

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other people have done research uh you

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know um

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observations that were made during the

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the early 20th century and the 19th

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century with with published a book

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called wonders in the sky that goes back

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through here at the middle of the 19th

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century with 500 unexplained cases okay

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where you know the fight has been and we

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we need to take the totality of this now

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that the subject is on and we have to

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move forward with that right and it's

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good that you guys are looking at at not

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only what's happening now but what's

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happened in the past what's you know

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because this phenomenon has been taking

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place for thousands of years like people

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have been seeing stuff in the sky

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and describing things Landing down and

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communicating with people for thousands

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of years so it's interesting now that

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we're it's almost like we're

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rediscovering something that maybe we've

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lost in the past you know we've we lost

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that connection or something so it's

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like we're rediscovering it because our

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lifespans are so short

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well and you know it takes hard work to

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go through the old connections uh

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because of course the social context has

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changed as civilization has evolved so

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you have to take everything pretty much

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in every Century Place it in in the

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context of what words meant you know you

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look at the Bible and there are

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descriptions in the Bible that remind us

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uh you know some of the things people

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see now but the the words and the the

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context are so different that we we

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can't just equate them so there is all

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that work needs to be done by historians

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and by Scholars and so on and that's

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what uh We've we've tried to drive to do

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but then even more recently

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you know look at the Nimitz I mean

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uh is that really unique uh were there

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cases like that before well if you if

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you look only at the American cases like

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uh Congress in say we shouldn't talk to

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other countries about this because we're

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going to be

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adding new things you know by

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um well I don't know if you spoke to

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other countries you would find that in

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the funds that we know about there have

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been cases like the Nimitz before

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you know with with uh with large vessels

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with aircraft carriers with

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um with uh icebreakers with who have uh

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not only detected but recorded uh

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observations so the big question I think

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now is going to be otherwise Congress

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gets involved nor fortunately and you

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know is going to be how much of an

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international

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friendly build and I think that's where

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you know we can uh the history of what

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I've done what other people have done

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but who have to to look forward we have

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to change the way we're doing things

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because now we're going to engage

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scientists you know seriously all over

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the world right to your point about the

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Nimitz and the Tic Tac video was that

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really an isolated event well Caroline

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Corey went out there and made a movie

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and uh basically they within three or

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four days they caught reigning Tic Tacs

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on their high-tech uh imagery and on

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their equipment so it was in the same

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area too just off of Catalina Island so

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if you can go with proper

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instrumentation and document that it

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can't be that you know

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um out there or that you know um minute

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of a chance it's fairly prevalent and

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maybe it's just you know our Spectrum as

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observers as biological creatures we

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only see certain waveforms we only hear

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certain frequencies were not designed to

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pick it all up I mean even a dog will

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hear a certain pitch of a whistle that

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we can't hear so maybe this has always

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been going on and we're just getting

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better at picking this up you know and

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with people having cameras and 1080p at

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fingertips it makes sense that there

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would be more

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um you know more of this stuff being

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able to be documented and I'm sure the

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government with all their technology has

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way more than the private sector will

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documenting this and sort of boxing it

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in terms of the physical parameters and

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I think that's that's tremendously

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important

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even talking with Kevin Day who was the

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radar operator on the Princeton he

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mentioned it was the new technology that

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they just had like the new radar

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technology they just had installed is

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actually what started picking up these

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um Tic Tac shaped objects on radar for

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two weeks he said it was just because of

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the upgrade so as our technology is

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getting better maybe our detection of

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these anomalies are getting better but

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one thing that for you which I always

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thought was amazing is that when it

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comes down to uaps or sightings you

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actually show up to the locations and

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it's funny with with that you can't

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obviously you can't reproduce what took

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place there but you always show up at

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these locations which to me is like I've

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always been fascinated by that that

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you've had a career of chasing

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these events especially when there's

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been really good documented uh you know

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00:12:24,590 --> 00:12:21,839
Witnesses and and stuff like that what

274
00:12:27,170 --> 00:12:24,600
brought you to be that passionate about

275
00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:27,180
this subject that you would you know

276
00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:28,860
donate so much of your time and and

277
00:12:36,050 --> 00:12:31,560
money towards this research

278
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:38,090
you know as you may know I mean I've

279
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:42,320
never hidden the fact that I saw a UFO

280
00:12:50,449 --> 00:12:47,519
when I was a teenager I was about 15 in

281
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:50,459
in France uh in broke daylight a

282
00:12:54,490 --> 00:12:51,440
beautiful

283
00:12:58,670 --> 00:12:54,500
Summer Afternoon Blue Sky

284
00:13:00,829 --> 00:12:58,680
uh not the cloud in the sky my mother

285
00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:00,839
called me she was working in the young

286
00:13:06,410 --> 00:13:04,920
she was working in the garden and uh I

287
00:13:09,710 --> 00:13:06,420
was doing some work with my father

288
00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:09,720
inside the house she called and I rushed

289
00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:12,180
out and when I saw it was essentially

290
00:13:22,910 --> 00:13:16,380
you know a flying saucer I mean it it

291
00:13:25,569 --> 00:13:22,920
was an oval silver object a disc with uh

292
00:13:28,670 --> 00:13:25,579
what I thought was a dome

293
00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:28,680
a transparent Dome on top

294
00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:31,980
it couldn't have been more than a

295
00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:36,120
kilometer away it seemed to be over the

296
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:39,240
the steeple of the of a church that we

297
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:42,600
could see from a male house and it was

298
00:13:49,610 --> 00:13:44,160
Motionless

299
00:13:52,009 --> 00:13:49,620
I had time to to to look at it uh the

300
00:13:54,590 --> 00:13:52,019
the next day I described it to a friend

301
00:13:57,710 --> 00:13:54,600
of mine from school whose house was up

302
00:14:00,110 --> 00:13:57,720
the hill another half kilometer and he

303
00:14:02,030 --> 00:14:00,120
said he had seen it and he had had time

304
00:14:04,730 --> 00:14:02,040
to get binoculars and look at it with

305
00:14:08,329 --> 00:14:04,740
binoculars so I got him to draw it and

306
00:14:12,350 --> 00:14:08,339
when he drew what he drew was exactly it

307
00:14:16,850 --> 00:14:12,360
was the shape I had seen so

308
00:14:20,030 --> 00:14:16,860
um I I never tried to hide that uh you

309
00:14:23,449 --> 00:14:20,040
know I've had a decent career in in

310
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:23,459
science starting with uh with Paris

311
00:14:31,490 --> 00:14:27,839
Observatory uh where they they knew that

312
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:31,500
uh I had you know seen this and called

313
00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:36,240
it a UFO at the time my father was a

314
00:14:38,829 --> 00:14:38,040
judge

315
00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:38,839
um

316
00:14:48,650 --> 00:14:45,500
understood technology said you know

317
00:14:51,889 --> 00:14:48,660
that's not first we can't report it

318
00:14:56,290 --> 00:14:53,629
um it didn't talk to you know judges

319
00:14:59,449 --> 00:14:56,300
don't get into the papers

320
00:15:01,970 --> 00:14:59,459
and he thought that there were so many

321
00:15:04,730 --> 00:15:01,980
new prototypes you know appearing those

322
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:04,740
were the days of you know the early 50s

323
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:08,399
mid 50s when the the new Jets were being

324
00:15:14,569 --> 00:15:11,279
demonstrated and so on and where the the

325
00:15:17,769 --> 00:15:14,579
fighters and so on and uh there were all

326
00:15:20,689 --> 00:15:17,779
kinds of things being tried so

327
00:15:22,689 --> 00:15:20,699
I added that and from a couple of years

328
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:22,699
I really didn't

329
00:15:29,750 --> 00:15:25,800
didn't think much about it it remained

330
00:15:33,650 --> 00:15:29,760
In My Memory but then you know when I I

331
00:15:37,610 --> 00:15:33,660
my first job was at Paris Observatory

332
00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:37,620
uh tracking satellites and I was by then

333
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:41,820
more you know Adept with technology and

334
00:15:45,769 --> 00:15:44,639
so on I also had people around me that I

335
00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:45,779
could ask

336
00:15:53,210 --> 00:15:49,500
uh advice and it was clear we still

337
00:15:55,610 --> 00:15:53,220
didn't have anything like it

338
00:15:58,430 --> 00:15:55,620
um I that's when I really became

339
00:16:01,310 --> 00:15:58,440
intrigued because then as I as I

340
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:01,320
continued to work in technology and in

341
00:16:07,129 --> 00:16:04,800
astronomy I found that people had seen

342
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,139
an awful lot of things that they

343
00:16:11,449 --> 00:16:09,120
wouldn't involve because they were

344
00:16:13,329 --> 00:16:11,459
afraid for a reputation they were afraid

345
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:13,339
for their jobs

346
00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:18,480
what I had seen was uh was not terribly

347
00:16:25,129 --> 00:16:21,240
controversial except that there was no

348
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:25,139
explanation for it so I could um you

349
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:27,680
know go on with my career

350
00:16:33,769 --> 00:16:31,199
eventually a few years ago being

351
00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:33,779
selected with my partners to run a

352
00:16:40,970 --> 00:16:36,180
venture fund for

353
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:40,980
that everybody who reviewed what what we

354
00:16:46,670 --> 00:16:43,620
did knew that I was interested in UFOs

355
00:16:48,530 --> 00:16:46,680
I've I've never hidden it and by now I

356
00:16:51,889 --> 00:16:48,540
couldn't hide it anyway so it doesn't

357
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:51,899
matter yeah no you can't uh if you type

358
00:16:56,569 --> 00:16:54,240
Jack valet in Google I mean

359
00:16:58,850 --> 00:16:56,579
you got how many pages that pop up of

360
00:17:00,650 --> 00:16:58,860
your work in in interest and even like

361
00:17:03,650 --> 00:17:00,660
Louie was mentioning earlier all your

362
00:17:05,210 --> 00:17:03,660
accolades and you're so humble and

363
00:17:06,949 --> 00:17:05,220
that's what I love about you is that

364
00:17:08,689 --> 00:17:06,959
you're so humble about everything that

365
00:17:10,610 --> 00:17:08,699
you do and you don't you know pat

366
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:10,620
yourself on the back and it's it's you

367
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:12,959
know really refreshing in this field

368
00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:15,360
ufology because there's a lot of people

369
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:17,640
that are starting to you know form these

370
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,160
egos around their work or their research

371
00:17:25,069 --> 00:17:22,079
and you know as if they're the only ones

372
00:17:28,429 --> 00:17:25,079
and you're like no we need teams we need

373
00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:28,439
to build large teams and that humbleness

374
00:17:34,370 --> 00:17:32,280
or is is it's refreshing well you know

375
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:34,380
there is no other way to do it I mean in

376
00:17:40,130 --> 00:17:37,679
science you'll never alone you're you're

377
00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:40,140
you know I I've had the privilege of

378
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,380
working with a man named Paul Baron

379
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:45,360
b-a-r-a-n

380
00:17:52,370 --> 00:17:48,780
uh who is not well known but he is

381
00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:52,380
really the the the the Pioneer who built

382
00:17:58,490 --> 00:17:55,980
the infrastructure for the internet uh

383
00:18:01,070 --> 00:17:58,500
namely he invented packets which a

384
00:18:03,169 --> 00:18:01,080
couple of other people contributed to to

385
00:18:08,450 --> 00:18:03,179
packet switching which is what we're

386
00:18:11,930 --> 00:18:08,460
using now to communicate and he always

387
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,940
said you know all you do is bring one

388
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:14,160
stone to the cathedral

389
00:18:20,690 --> 00:18:18,720
that's that's all you do and uh yes he

390
00:18:23,930 --> 00:18:20,700
made a big contribution but there were

391
00:18:25,630 --> 00:18:23,940
dozens of bright engineers and bright

392
00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:25,640
programmers working

393
00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:28,500
on all the different aspects of building

394
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,260
even the Primitive structure for the

395
00:18:38,990 --> 00:18:33,600
alphabet that that became the internet

396
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:39,000
so uh yeah there is no no way that you

397
00:18:44,090 --> 00:18:40,799
can make more than just

398
00:18:46,909 --> 00:18:44,100
a good contribution and and that's fine

399
00:18:49,610 --> 00:18:46,919
and then you have to you have to do it

400
00:18:52,490 --> 00:18:49,620
with a team they are very few very few

401
00:18:57,169 --> 00:18:52,500
things that have been done by just one

402
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:57,179
man like Einstein or you know or Galileo

403
00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:00,720
um but uh even in the case of Galileo I

404
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:02,340
mean there were other people who were

405
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:04,799
inventing tennis courts around that time

406
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:08,640
and and looking for the telescopes uh

407
00:19:16,610 --> 00:19:12,480
Galileo was unique because he was a

408
00:19:20,350 --> 00:19:16,620
great marketing genius uh in addition to

409
00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:20,360
being great scientific genes

410
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:22,440
I'm just gonna say I find it really

411
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,000
interesting that now we're getting

412
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:26,160
better at inventing technology and

413
00:19:30,710 --> 00:19:28,799
things machines and you would think that

414
00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:30,720
if this was a nuts and bolts topic

415
00:19:35,210 --> 00:19:33,240
machine would find machine but the

416
00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:35,220
better machines we get the more it seems

417
00:19:39,950 --> 00:19:37,860
to be that this is interdimensional or

418
00:19:42,110 --> 00:19:39,960
it's not something that is always

419
00:19:44,270 --> 00:19:42,120
necessarily physical and we seem to be

420
00:19:46,010 --> 00:19:44,280
going more down the rabbit hole now the

421
00:19:49,789 --> 00:19:46,020
smarter we get we think we're getting

422
00:19:51,950 --> 00:19:49,799
closer to that actual finite answer the

423
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:51,960
answer is way less finite and it's

424
00:19:56,029 --> 00:19:53,940
infinite you know in its uh

425
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:56,039
possibilities really and nobody knows

426
00:20:00,110 --> 00:19:58,320
and good on you I really respect your

427
00:20:01,750 --> 00:20:00,120
humility and the fact that you said you

428
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:01,760
know like when you switch from the

429
00:20:06,529 --> 00:20:04,559
Extraterrestrial hypothesis to more of

430
00:20:09,169 --> 00:20:06,539
like a multi-dimensional visitation

431
00:20:10,909 --> 00:20:09,179
hypothesis you've got a lot of flack and

432
00:20:13,070 --> 00:20:10,919
all of the prominent ufologists wanted

433
00:20:15,529 --> 00:20:13,080
to string you up and said you were crazy

434
00:20:16,970 --> 00:20:15,539
and I'm sure people like Galileo and

435
00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:16,980
inventors over the years have all gone

436
00:20:20,330 --> 00:20:18,120
through the same thing I'm sure people

437
00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:20,340
thought Isaac Newton was crazy and now

438
00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:22,500
you know even people like Tesla as of

439
00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:24,780
Fairly recently right so

440
00:20:29,090 --> 00:20:27,660
um yeah I find that very interesting

441
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:29,100
well

442
00:20:32,810 --> 00:20:30,240
um

443
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:32,820
you have to take everything into account

444
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:35,460
we cannot just narrow it down to one

445
00:20:40,669 --> 00:20:38,160
thing we know or one thing we think we

446
00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:40,679
know this is a phenomenon that

447
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:41,900
challenges

448
00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:49,440
Psychology in neuroanatomy you know I

449
00:20:57,529 --> 00:20:53,220
work now with Professor Nolan at

450
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:57,539
Stanford you know and with other people

451
00:21:02,150 --> 00:20:59,840
who are starting to look at the

452
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:02,160
neuroanatomy of the brain

453
00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:05,220
in terms of you know the current

454
00:21:11,390 --> 00:21:08,460
research on the brain and what it means

455
00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:11,400
in in the perception of extraordinary

456
00:21:18,110 --> 00:21:14,340
phenomena like like the the UFO

457
00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:18,120
phenomena so we need to cover all of

458
00:21:22,909 --> 00:21:20,340
that the problem is that the academy

459
00:21:25,789 --> 00:21:22,919
Community isn't quite ready for that you

460
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:25,799
know the the psychology building is at

461
00:21:31,010 --> 00:21:28,440
one end of the campus and the physics

462
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:31,020
building is at the other end yeah they

463
00:21:36,409 --> 00:21:33,600
really have no reason to get together

464
00:21:38,090 --> 00:21:36,419
except that the the Christmas party you

465
00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:38,100
know so

466
00:21:46,090 --> 00:21:42,740
um we we don't have the academic

467
00:21:50,029 --> 00:21:46,100
equipment or the academic architecture

468
00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:50,039
to deal with a problem of that

469
00:21:54,649 --> 00:21:52,200
so you know of that variety and

470
00:21:57,289 --> 00:21:54,659
amplitude

471
00:22:00,289 --> 00:21:57,299
um to some extent the military is better

472
00:22:01,450 --> 00:22:00,299
prepared because they have very good

473
00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:01,460
sensors

474
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:04,140
that that are deployed in connection

475
00:22:10,610 --> 00:22:05,280
with

476
00:22:16,850 --> 00:22:10,620
whether it's a ship or or you know an

477
00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:16,860
F-18 uh and that's in uh in in the you

478
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,740
know in the event of War

479
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:21,360
um those

480
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:24,720
but those sensors where I'm not designed

481
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:25,919
to

482
00:22:39,049 --> 00:22:35,760
detect the exhaust of an enemy plane and

483
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:39,059
locate it and find its distance and and

484
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:43,039
aim you know ammunition at it so the

485
00:22:49,810 --> 00:22:47,280
it's difficult to extrapolate also from

486
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:49,820
what they even the military is getting

487
00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:51,840
and uh

488
00:23:01,490 --> 00:22:58,200
so the the challenge now is to uh is to

489
00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:01,500
bridge those different disciplines in in

490
00:23:08,930 --> 00:23:04,020
a way that is

491
00:23:12,169 --> 00:23:08,940
um sober uh that is uh complete that is

492
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:12,179
uh you know very carefully documented

493
00:23:19,549 --> 00:23:15,720
and and in my opinion to do it all over

494
00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:19,559
the world you know the US is uh 1.9

495
00:23:23,750 --> 00:23:22,980
percent of the habitable surface of the

496
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:23,760
Earth

497
00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:26,400
uh you know what's going on in the other

498
00:23:30,590 --> 00:23:27,720
98 percent

499
00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:30,600
you know are we going to ignore that so

500
00:23:37,130 --> 00:23:33,960
I I think that's the next problem that

501
00:23:39,169 --> 00:23:37,140
uh Congress is going to have to address

502
00:23:41,350 --> 00:23:39,179
you know maybe the U.N should be

503
00:23:44,930 --> 00:23:41,360
involved and should

504
00:23:48,110 --> 00:23:44,940
open up the opportunity for countries to

505
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,120
come forward with what they know

506
00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:50,880
um I know for a fact that there are a

507
00:23:56,330 --> 00:23:53,100
number of of countries because I've

508
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:56,340
spoken to you know people who had

509
00:24:02,570 --> 00:23:59,520
executive roles uh in in several of

510
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:02,580
those countries that they have that that

511
00:24:07,010 --> 00:24:05,220
has never been published and the reason

512
00:24:09,770 --> 00:24:07,020
it hasn't been published is that they're

513
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:09,780
waiting for the U.S to create a

514
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:12,720
framework that you know there is so much

515
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:16,020
admiration and respect for U.S American

516
00:24:21,110 --> 00:24:18,720
Technology for Silicon Valley for

517
00:24:23,649 --> 00:24:21,120
inventions for you know the internet and

518
00:24:27,049 --> 00:24:23,659
everything else that

519
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:27,059
people assume that you know if there is

520
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:29,340
something unknown out there the us is

521
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:32,340
going to deal with it first and they'll

522
00:24:38,289 --> 00:24:35,700
tell us well uh you know there has been

523
00:24:42,370 --> 00:24:38,299
so much secrecy over the years

524
00:24:47,270 --> 00:24:42,380
that other people have retreated and

525
00:24:49,490 --> 00:24:47,280
thought well you know why why aren't we

526
00:24:52,250 --> 00:24:49,500
sharing that data I mean we're sharing

527
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,260
climate data we're sharing you know

528
00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:54,480
financial data we're sharing all kinds

529
00:25:01,490 --> 00:24:56,580
of things that's open between different

530
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:01,500
countries to make the world work yeah so

531
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:04,200
and how come we cannot communicate on

532
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:07,679
this particular subject well uh maybe

533
00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:09,919
the first country that

534
00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:13,260
exploits that technology of you know

535
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,700
whatever UFOs are when will gain

536
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,799
something

537
00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:20,480
but

538
00:25:26,169 --> 00:25:23,700
if you don't have the observations uh

539
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:26,179
you're you're in a desert by yourself

540
00:25:33,649 --> 00:25:30,240
you know and other people cannot help

541
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:33,659
you they you know I'm in tomorrow I'm

542
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:36,240
leaving for France there is a meeting

543
00:25:42,890 --> 00:25:39,240
next month organized by the French space

544
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:42,900
agency which is the third largest in the

545
00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:47,640
world after uh behind Ross Cosmos in

546
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:50,820
NASA uh that you know they launched the

547
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:52,740
Kepler Telescope you know from chrome

548
00:26:00,350 --> 00:25:58,559
you know so uh they uh there is an

549
00:26:03,890 --> 00:26:00,360
international meeting with seven

550
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:03,900
countries the US is not represented

551
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:05,279
well

552
00:26:13,090 --> 00:26:09,120
you know uh Argentina is coming Holland

553
00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:13,100
is coming Norway is coming Italy the UK

554
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:15,480
you know they're all making

555
00:26:23,590 --> 00:26:19,500
presentations about UFOs and and you

556
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:23,600
know the science applied to ufology

557
00:26:30,049 --> 00:26:27,000
in the USA is one presentation by a

558
00:26:32,810 --> 00:26:30,059
friend of mine will present some of the

559
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:32,820
work that has been done on pilot

560
00:26:38,810 --> 00:26:35,760
sightings you know that Dr Richard

561
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:38,820
Haynes pioneered that and one of his

562
00:26:45,049 --> 00:26:41,640
friends is making the presentation but

563
00:26:48,169 --> 00:26:45,059
they the the the the the the pilot site

564
00:26:51,470 --> 00:26:48,179
in catalog was developed in France

565
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:51,480
initially and then augmented by

566
00:26:56,990 --> 00:26:55,200
cooperation between Dr Haynes and the

567
00:27:00,529 --> 00:26:57,000
people who are doing it in France okay

568
00:27:03,169 --> 00:27:00,539
that's an example of a very good result

569
00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:03,179
you know from International cooperation

570
00:27:09,529 --> 00:27:05,220
but we need more of them

571
00:27:12,890 --> 00:27:09,539
why I proposed a list of you know

572
00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:12,900
American scientists who could contribute

573
00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:15,860
to the meetings in two runs next month

574
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:20,460
and the the uh you know the reaction

575
00:27:26,930 --> 00:27:24,240
both from the U.S there was no push and

576
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:26,940
the reaction was well you know let them

577
00:27:31,370 --> 00:27:29,279
publish what they have then we'll take

578
00:27:34,730 --> 00:27:31,380
it into account but the cooperation

579
00:27:36,830 --> 00:27:34,740
isn't isn't really working and that's my

580
00:27:39,649 --> 00:27:36,840
my main subject of frustration to me

581
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:39,659
when I when I look at how much has been

582
00:27:46,730 --> 00:27:44,159
accomplished and where we go there is a

583
00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:46,740
valid argument

584
00:27:55,010 --> 00:27:52,200
that the the subject is so complex and

585
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:55,020
the U.S has you know the leadership in

586
00:27:59,690 --> 00:27:56,480
technology

587
00:28:02,390 --> 00:27:59,700
uh and you can certainly argue with

588
00:28:05,390 --> 00:28:02,400
argue that it's not necessarily true in

589
00:28:07,330 --> 00:28:05,400
every field of Technology but you know

590
00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:07,340
overall

591
00:28:13,549 --> 00:28:09,740
electronic and physical

592
00:28:15,950 --> 00:28:13,559
chemical technology the US has a you

593
00:28:17,630 --> 00:28:15,960
know obvious leadership position

594
00:28:21,289 --> 00:28:17,640
so

595
00:28:22,750 --> 00:28:21,299
maybe we don't need the other countries

596
00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:22,760
but

597
00:28:27,529 --> 00:28:25,799
uh I think that's contradicted as we're

598
00:28:30,769 --> 00:28:27,539
talking about the limits by the fact

599
00:28:33,169 --> 00:28:30,779
that I know of data that should come out

600
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:33,179
that would be important for the people

601
00:28:38,510 --> 00:28:35,400
who analyze what's what happened to the

602
00:28:42,169 --> 00:28:38,520
limits in the United States including

603
00:28:46,250 --> 00:28:42,179
the military if they knew about what is

604
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:46,260
in the other files now uh it's not for

605
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:50,640
me to you know when you on that or you

606
00:28:54,769 --> 00:28:52,440
know it's

607
00:28:57,769 --> 00:28:54,779
um you know speak speak to that because

608
00:29:00,590 --> 00:28:57,779
I don't have all the information uh

609
00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:00,600
those signs are official fines and they

610
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,480
are properly you know managed just like

611
00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:05,520
the American funds are properly managed

612
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:08,520
but maybe at some point we should all

613
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:12,000
get into the same the same room uh the

614
00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:14,480
same thing as you go into history

615
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:17,460
yes so Congress says we should look at

616
00:29:23,090 --> 00:29:20,880
everything you know in the last five

617
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:23,100
years maybe that the because the

618
00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:26,399
military has had extraordinary sessions

619
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:29,580
you know on all the platforms the ships

620
00:29:35,330 --> 00:29:31,919
the planes suddenly in the last five

621
00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:35,340
years has been a revolution with that

622
00:29:41,090 --> 00:29:39,000
but you know what about before I mean uh

623
00:29:44,990 --> 00:29:41,100
even the friends of project group

624
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:45,000
uh you know are important and they have

625
00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:48,960
been studied mostly biometers but they

626
00:29:54,649 --> 00:29:52,440
have been studied well and uh well what

627
00:29:55,490 --> 00:29:54,659
about history what about what happened

628
00:29:57,789 --> 00:29:55,500
before

629
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:57,799
so

630
00:30:04,490 --> 00:30:01,279
in science you can't just put little

631
00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:04,500
limits around little Windows around

632
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:07,740
things you cannot just study you know

633
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:12,320
cancer in the suburb of some of one city

634
00:30:19,549 --> 00:30:15,600
if you study cancer you want to study

635
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:19,559
cancer on you know different cultures uh

636
00:30:25,970 --> 00:30:23,100
different races different geographical

637
00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:25,980
situations and so on and to to really

638
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:28,140
understand all the parameters well

639
00:30:33,049 --> 00:30:30,720
here's the same thing

640
00:30:34,730 --> 00:30:33,059
yeah no you mentioned that

641
00:30:37,010 --> 00:30:34,740
um you know studying cancer you got

642
00:30:39,889 --> 00:30:37,020
steady cancer on its own terms and when

643
00:30:41,930 --> 00:30:39,899
it comes down to the UAP uh you know UFO

644
00:30:43,730 --> 00:30:41,940
problems that we have you got to study

645
00:30:45,049 --> 00:30:43,740
that on its own terms as well we're just

646
00:30:48,529 --> 00:30:45,059
trying to figure out what those terms

647
00:30:51,169 --> 00:30:48,539
are and uh you've done incredibly well

648
00:30:52,669 --> 00:30:51,179
throughout the years to basically write

649
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:52,679
and expand

650
00:30:59,210 --> 00:30:56,399
our thoughts and ideas on what uaps may

651
00:31:02,029 --> 00:30:59,220
be we often talk about Louis and I on

652
00:31:03,950 --> 00:31:02,039
the podcast that you know it may be all

653
00:31:04,990 --> 00:31:03,960
the possibilities it may be that it's

654
00:31:08,210 --> 00:31:05,000
extraterrestrial that's

655
00:31:09,889 --> 00:31:08,220
inter-dimensional extra-term pastoral

656
00:31:11,510 --> 00:31:09,899
um that it's a variety of different

657
00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:11,520
things that's all happening at once

658
00:31:17,450 --> 00:31:14,100
that's why disclosure is so hard to

659
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:17,460
do because it's complex it's frightening

660
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:19,440
because there's you know the universe is

661
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:21,240
the universe whatever its nature is

662
00:31:27,409 --> 00:31:24,360
we're still discovering that right so I

663
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:27,419
you know again with your books

664
00:31:31,130 --> 00:31:28,980
um Dimensions was a good one

665
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,140
confrontations which of course I read uh

666
00:31:35,470 --> 00:31:33,120
passport to I always mess this up

667
00:31:37,570 --> 00:31:35,480
Magnolia right

668
00:31:39,950 --> 00:31:37,580
yeah

669
00:31:42,889 --> 00:31:39,960
it's I don't know why I'm stuck with

670
00:31:44,330 --> 00:31:42,899
words uh but uh yeah no we've written it

671
00:31:46,690 --> 00:31:44,340
in French you'd have been good

672
00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:46,700
yeah

673
00:31:56,110 --> 00:31:51,720
Magonia was in the Middle Ages the realm

674
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:56,120
uh above the clouds where there were

675
00:32:01,070 --> 00:31:58,559
there were things happening you know of

676
00:32:05,389 --> 00:32:01,080
course the angels are above the cloud

677
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:05,399
and Sorcerers were building

678
00:32:13,490 --> 00:32:08,399
ships to sail above the clouds you know

679
00:32:14,870 --> 00:32:13,500
and uh so the uh there were stories

680
00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:14,880
about

681
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:18,480
um entities or humanoids from above the

682
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:21,419
clouds and came down in Cloud ships and

683
00:32:27,950 --> 00:32:25,200
were seen and they came from Magonia

684
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:27,960
when it comes down for um because this

685
00:32:33,169 --> 00:32:30,480
podcast we educate a lot of new people

686
00:32:35,090 --> 00:32:33,179
that are new to the subject on uaps

687
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:35,100
because as we're discovering and we're

688
00:32:40,250 --> 00:32:36,720
learning from people like yourself sir

689
00:32:42,169 --> 00:32:40,260
they're learning as well so for the new

690
00:32:43,610 --> 00:32:42,179
ufologists the new people that are

691
00:32:46,909 --> 00:32:43,620
getting involved

692
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:46,919
um would you have any advice on how to

693
00:32:52,430 --> 00:32:50,640
proceed about this in a manner that is

694
00:32:54,409 --> 00:32:52,440
the way that you've presented it you

695
00:32:57,649 --> 00:32:54,419
know scientific and keep logical because

696
00:32:59,870 --> 00:32:57,659
I fell for many many hoax I'm not going

697
00:33:01,130 --> 00:32:59,880
to lie to you I fell for many videos and

698
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:01,140
stuff like that and I always think you

699
00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:02,700
know what Jack Valley would have fallen

700
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:05,880
for those uh how do you proceed and what

701
00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:08,640
what's your advice on not on just

702
00:33:13,070 --> 00:33:10,620
keeping your head above the water when

703
00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:13,080
it comes down to this subject

704
00:33:19,250 --> 00:33:16,500
um I I one advice I would give to the

705
00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:19,260
extent that I'm you know allowed to give

706
00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:23,220
advice is the suspend judgment you know

707
00:33:27,769 --> 00:33:25,260
don't don't say well this guy was

708
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:27,779
obviously crazy because maybe he wasn't

709
00:33:34,610 --> 00:33:32,159
crazy uh and uh or you know this is

710
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:34,620
obviously a balloon well maybe it wasn't

711
00:33:39,730 --> 00:33:37,679
developed you know so you have to really

712
00:33:44,450 --> 00:33:39,740
consider everything

713
00:33:47,149 --> 00:33:44,460
uh the the basis as uh Dr heineck taught

714
00:33:50,570 --> 00:33:47,159
me is the witness

715
00:33:53,389 --> 00:33:50,580
you know you have to go there and you

716
00:33:57,730 --> 00:33:53,399
have to to meet the witness or the

717
00:34:02,870 --> 00:33:57,740
witnesses uh including the children

718
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:02,880
and listen to what they tell you and and

719
00:34:08,770 --> 00:34:06,720
you have to gain their trust because

720
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:08,780
you know there is this great

721
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:11,839
misunderstanding among scientists even

722
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,599
that when somebody reports something

723
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:17,760
they are going to give you the complete

724
00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:20,159
truth and so on you because you are

725
00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:23,460
after all you can sit there you know and

726
00:34:29,329 --> 00:34:27,480
as a judge and you know these Ordinary

727
00:34:31,369 --> 00:34:29,339
People are going to tell you what

728
00:34:32,930 --> 00:34:31,379
they've seen and you're going to ask

729
00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:32,940
them questions and they're going to

730
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:35,760
answer those questions truthfully well

731
00:34:41,869 --> 00:34:39,119
that's not true uh that's not true

732
00:34:45,950 --> 00:34:41,879
because you know uh the farmer meeting

733
00:34:49,010 --> 00:34:45,960
an astronomer the farmer you know maybe

734
00:34:51,649 --> 00:34:49,020
just as smart as the astronomer I mean

735
00:34:53,629 --> 00:34:51,659
if farmers were not dressed as smart as

736
00:34:55,690 --> 00:34:53,639
astronomers we wouldn't have anything to

737
00:35:00,109 --> 00:34:55,700
eat you know so

738
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:00,119
the when when people it's a it's a

739
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:03,119
meeting that has to be

740
00:35:08,210 --> 00:35:04,640
um

741
00:35:12,829 --> 00:35:08,220
you you must gain the trust I I think

742
00:35:14,990 --> 00:35:12,839
trust is the coin of the realm here

743
00:35:17,230 --> 00:35:15,000
um you know I remember a case in

744
00:35:20,810 --> 00:35:17,240
Northern California it had been studied

745
00:35:23,329 --> 00:35:20,820
by by ushu people and they published the

746
00:35:24,910 --> 00:35:23,339
story that uh you know this family

747
00:35:29,810 --> 00:35:24,920
essentially

748
00:35:33,770 --> 00:35:29,820
an older couple had a uh a piece of

749
00:35:37,569 --> 00:35:33,780
property in a beautiful area up close to

750
00:35:41,329 --> 00:35:37,579
the Oregon border near the Klamath River

751
00:35:43,310 --> 00:35:41,339
and uh that's a seven hour drive from

752
00:35:47,930 --> 00:35:43,320
San Francisco you know it's not uh

753
00:35:51,170 --> 00:35:47,940
California is is huge as you know so

754
00:35:54,829 --> 00:35:51,180
um what they had seen was something that

755
00:35:59,390 --> 00:35:54,839
uh landed on their land on their uh

756
00:36:03,490 --> 00:35:59,400
their their little little ranch and uh

757
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:03,500
then when it took off it took off uh

758
00:36:08,329 --> 00:36:07,260
straight up into the sky

759
00:36:11,390 --> 00:36:08,339
um

760
00:36:17,810 --> 00:36:11,400
well uh

761
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:17,820
I went there and I I met this couple uh

762
00:36:23,870 --> 00:36:19,940
it turned out the the wife

763
00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:23,880
had French ancestry so she'd like to

764
00:36:30,349 --> 00:36:27,240
talk about France so so that was that

765
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:30,359
was fun and we sat in there they they

766
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:31,920
lived in a trailer

767
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:34,619
so we sat in in the trailer and they

768
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,440
gave me a cup of coffee and we we spoke

769
00:36:42,829 --> 00:36:39,440
for a couple of hours

770
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:42,839
uh well

771
00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:46,079
um once we had and I asked them about

772
00:36:52,730 --> 00:36:49,800
their health I asked them about you know

773
00:36:54,650 --> 00:36:52,740
their dog how the dog had reacted to

774
00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:54,660
this thing being there they showed me

775
00:37:04,670 --> 00:36:56,940
where it took place

776
00:37:05,930 --> 00:37:04,680
uh you know there were trees around

777
00:37:09,410 --> 00:37:05,940
and

778
00:37:12,050 --> 00:37:09,420
the ufologists had said the thing took

779
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:12,060
off you know in a certain direction and

780
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:14,400
then if if it did that

781
00:37:17,630 --> 00:37:15,359
um

782
00:37:20,270 --> 00:37:17,640
it uh you know it would have gone

783
00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:20,280
through the trees

784
00:37:24,589 --> 00:37:23,220
well they said that well you know it

785
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:24,599
kind of

786
00:37:29,569 --> 00:37:27,660
flew through the trees

787
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:29,579
well

788
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:31,320
now we're talking about something

789
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:34,400
different right we're not talking about

790
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:37,680
some Advanced you know spacecraft the

791
00:37:42,410 --> 00:37:39,599
way we think of spacecraft

792
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:42,420
we're talking about something that can

793
00:37:50,810 --> 00:37:46,640
change shapes it can manipulate matter

794
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:50,820
uh and manipulate space and time and of

795
00:37:55,310 --> 00:37:53,280
course you know scientists have thought

796
00:37:58,370 --> 00:37:55,320
about that

797
00:38:03,589 --> 00:37:58,380
um about what what forms of of matter

798
00:38:08,569 --> 00:38:03,599
you know plasma can can go through solid

799
00:38:12,770 --> 00:38:08,579
solid things for uh and what happens

800
00:38:15,849 --> 00:38:12,780
when you do that but the the report if

801
00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:15,859
you just go by the report was published

802
00:38:22,970 --> 00:38:19,980
uh the the the object just went up into

803
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:22,980
the sky well it didn't go up into the

804
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:25,680
sky and the only reason they told me

805
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:29,040
that was that they knew by then that I

806
00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:31,980
wasn't going to ridicule them that I was

807
00:38:36,770 --> 00:38:34,200
going to take that seriously that I was

808
00:38:39,410 --> 00:38:36,780
you know that I really wanted to learn

809
00:38:42,770 --> 00:38:39,420
from them I wasn't there to tell them

810
00:38:46,609 --> 00:38:42,780
what I had seen I was there to add you

811
00:38:48,770 --> 00:38:46,619
know another data point to the overall

812
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:48,780
database

813
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:52,800
and when you do that then interesting

814
00:38:58,970 --> 00:38:55,380
things happen like you know in in

815
00:38:59,890 --> 00:38:58,980
Trinity which as as you know which I

816
00:39:07,609 --> 00:38:59,900
just

817
00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:07,619
Trinity in a new edition because we

818
00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:09,180
found new things

819
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:10,920
and

820
00:39:12,109 --> 00:39:11,280
[Music]

821
00:39:14,990 --> 00:39:12,119
um

822
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:15,000
people have said well Trinity you know

823
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:18,960
two kids have seen this crash and yeah

824
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,599
they were there for 10 days so this is

825
00:39:26,450 --> 00:39:23,760
you know in a way this is better than

826
00:39:30,410 --> 00:39:26,460
Roswell because they saw the thing alive

827
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:30,420
the thing you know left traces in the

828
00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:34,380
ground on their property uh we have the

829
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:37,380
testimony of a pilot who saw it at the

830
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,839
same time so we have the pirate and we

831
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:41,760
have the two you know you know in the

832
00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:44,160
air and the two kids on the ground and

833
00:39:51,710 --> 00:39:48,180
we have a complete scene there of the uh

834
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:51,720
of the the arrival of that and then the

835
00:39:57,710 --> 00:39:55,200
the Army took 10 days to recover it and

836
00:40:00,829 --> 00:39:57,720
we know it must have waited you know

837
00:40:04,010 --> 00:40:00,839
between two and five tons so this is not

838
00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,020
just hopes that somebody invented but

839
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:06,240
you know people I said how can you trust

840
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:08,940
two kids I mean seven-year-old and a

841
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:09,900
nine-year-old

842
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:12,960
well number one you know those kids were

843
00:40:19,370 --> 00:40:16,380
very bright yeah this was the end of the

844
00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:19,380
war when the kids were in charge of the

845
00:40:24,829 --> 00:40:22,200
ranch because all the adults were out at

846
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:24,839
war in the Pacific or in Europe and

847
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:27,839
Germany and so on uh this was one month

848
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:30,780
after the first bulb the first tattoo

849
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:34,800
ball 20 miles from the first atom ball

850
00:40:40,210 --> 00:40:37,920
is that a coincidence I mean all of that

851
00:40:42,589 --> 00:40:40,220
happening together in one place

852
00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:42,599
this doesn't take anything out of

853
00:40:48,170 --> 00:40:45,180
raspberry I've been attacked by saying

854
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:48,180
well you know you want to uh attack

855
00:40:53,089 --> 00:40:51,119
Roswell well this supports rise well

856
00:40:55,370 --> 00:40:53,099
yeah because there are a lot of

857
00:40:59,450 --> 00:40:55,380
questions about was well there was no

858
00:41:02,030 --> 00:40:59,460
witness that was man you know so here we

859
00:41:04,490 --> 00:41:02,040
have three people seeing the thing

860
00:41:06,670 --> 00:41:04,500
arrive and two of them are on the ground

861
00:41:09,829 --> 00:41:06,680
ready to

862
00:41:12,530 --> 00:41:09,839
go to the object and see if they could

863
00:41:14,990 --> 00:41:12,540
help this is at the time when there were

864
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:15,000
no UFOs the term hadn't been invented

865
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:18,359
there was no Air Force there was no CIA

866
00:41:23,150 --> 00:41:20,400
you know the Air Force is going to be

867
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:23,160
established by Truman two years later in

868
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:26,760
1947 the term Flying Saucer has not been

869
00:41:33,290 --> 00:41:29,520
invented it will be invented by Kenneth

870
00:41:35,810 --> 00:41:33,300
Arnold in 1947 you know there is no

871
00:41:38,210 --> 00:41:35,820
knowledge of any of that the kids think

872
00:41:40,370 --> 00:41:38,220
that it's an accident of an aircraft

873
00:41:43,130 --> 00:41:40,380
they are the first ones on the scene

874
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:43,140
they know they are supposed to help and

875
00:41:48,349 --> 00:41:45,599
what they see is you know something

876
00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:48,359
that's completely out of anything they

877
00:41:54,050 --> 00:41:51,540
can imagine it's around oval they call

878
00:41:58,690 --> 00:41:54,060
it an avocado of course everybody was

879
00:42:02,690 --> 00:41:58,700
speaking Spanish right uh and

880
00:42:05,870 --> 00:42:02,700
they see three little creatures about

881
00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:05,880
their same size as with kids about three

882
00:42:12,410 --> 00:42:10,020
three feet tall they breathe out air

883
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:12,420
they are not like the alien on the cover

884
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:15,599
of communion they are not like you know

885
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:19,200
the the aliens of Hollywood they are the

886
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:20,400
humanoid

887
00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:23,180
with some

888
00:42:30,170 --> 00:42:26,280
gestures or behavior that suggests an

889
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:30,180
insect you know so the the kids don't

890
00:42:36,290 --> 00:42:33,359
quite know what words to use but mostly

891
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:36,300
they call them little men right and Okay

892
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,440
so

893
00:42:41,210 --> 00:42:39,599
and you mentioned as well sir that they

894
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,220
they were squealing sort of like

895
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:43,440
jackrabbits because they seemed to be

896
00:42:47,569 --> 00:42:45,660
injured uh that's what the kids have

897
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:47,579
noticed yeah yes

898
00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:51,359
uh and uh you know those kids are

899
00:42:58,970 --> 00:42:56,220
growing up on the ranch on the farm uh

900
00:43:01,490 --> 00:42:58,980
they they they've seen animals being

901
00:43:03,550 --> 00:43:01,500
butchered they've seen they're familiar

902
00:43:06,130 --> 00:43:03,560
with with all of that

903
00:43:10,730 --> 00:43:06,140
so the

904
00:43:13,970 --> 00:43:10,740
they uh tell us that story and the

905
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:13,980
question is again here into the

906
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:17,760
information scientists coming in

907
00:43:22,970 --> 00:43:19,920
um I look for patterns

908
00:43:26,690 --> 00:43:22,980
it turns out there are two other cases

909
00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:26,700
well-known that have been studied not by

910
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:29,540
ufologists but have been studied by

911
00:43:34,270 --> 00:43:33,359
States you know one in France and one in

912
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:34,280
the US

913
00:43:42,170 --> 00:43:37,920
the Socorro case

914
00:43:43,130 --> 00:43:42,180
then the Valentine case of 1965 in in

915
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:43,140
France

916
00:43:50,270 --> 00:43:46,800
well in both of those cases there is no

917
00:43:52,910 --> 00:43:50,280
fines also the object is x-shaped the

918
00:43:55,970 --> 00:43:52,920
kids called it an avocado

919
00:43:57,970 --> 00:43:55,980
in Spanish but it's essentially a

920
00:44:01,970 --> 00:43:57,980
flattened egg

921
00:44:03,950 --> 00:44:01,980
the size of two trucks

922
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:03,960
extremely strong

923
00:44:10,970 --> 00:44:07,920
but you find uh something like that in

924
00:44:14,569 --> 00:44:10,980
Socorro so-call wasn't a flying saucer

925
00:44:17,150 --> 00:44:14,579
it was a flying egg that landed on a

926
00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:17,160
very sophisticated landing gear with

927
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:20,040
four legs in the part of the desert but

928
00:44:24,670 --> 00:44:23,220
I've I've gone several times I had the

929
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:24,680
pleasure of taking

930
00:44:33,770 --> 00:44:30,680
Dr heinek's son there recently you know

931
00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:33,780
the site hasn't changed very much it's

932
00:44:38,589 --> 00:44:37,140
it's sort of a a piece of land that's

933
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:38,599
left alone

934
00:44:46,490 --> 00:44:42,180
so it you know just a little a few

935
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:46,500
Cactus and a few small plants and you

936
00:44:49,450 --> 00:44:48,240
can still see the place where the thing

937
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:49,460
landed

938
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:52,560
and of course valence all in France I'm

939
00:44:56,170 --> 00:44:54,960
very familiar with it I've gone there a

940
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:56,180
couple of times

941
00:45:03,890 --> 00:44:59,760
I've spoken to the the main witness into

942
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:03,900
other Witnesses who have never gone from

943
00:45:10,970 --> 00:45:08,400
forward with their testimony officially

944
00:45:12,829 --> 00:45:10,980
no sir we're not too familiar with that

945
00:45:16,730 --> 00:45:12,839
case do you mind just brushing us up a

946
00:45:19,069 --> 00:45:16,740
little bit on on what that was yes uh in

947
00:45:24,109 --> 00:45:19,079
that in Saul

948
00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:24,119
um the the witness is a a prominent uh

949
00:45:30,349 --> 00:45:26,880
Farmer in the area known several

950
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:30,359
properties around valenzo is in a very

951
00:45:34,990 --> 00:45:33,660
beautiful area uh in the midi you know

952
00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:35,000
of France

953
00:45:46,930 --> 00:45:43,510
um on a it's a plateau

954
00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:46,940
where there are a number of crops uh

955
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:51,540
grapes uh different cereals and lavender

956
00:45:57,290 --> 00:45:54,319
plants so it's a very beautiful

957
00:45:59,650 --> 00:45:57,300
landscape this is our first of August

958
00:46:03,910 --> 00:45:59,660
1965.

959
00:46:07,370 --> 00:46:03,920
he goes to his field to water the plants

960
00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:07,380
before the Sun is up so he's there at

961
00:46:11,930 --> 00:46:09,480
five o'clock in the morning because it's

962
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:11,940
going to get very hot you know the south

963
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:14,400
of France is very hot especially in

964
00:46:21,650 --> 00:46:17,880
August I mean they just had you know a

965
00:46:25,370 --> 00:46:21,660
big Heat Wave there uh you know last

966
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:25,380
month the so he he goes there to take

967
00:46:32,270 --> 00:46:28,440
care of and he sees

968
00:46:33,829 --> 00:46:32,280
um an egg-shaped object in the in the

969
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,839
field

970
00:46:38,089 --> 00:46:36,000
and where it shouldn't be because it's

971
00:46:40,849 --> 00:46:38,099
going to damage some plants okay so

972
00:46:42,770 --> 00:46:40,859
reflexes of the French farmer you know

973
00:46:45,050 --> 00:46:42,780
who are these guys who are landing on my

974
00:46:48,770 --> 00:46:45,060
property he thinks it must be some sort

975
00:46:52,670 --> 00:46:48,780
of helicopter but he creeps up to it

976
00:46:55,550 --> 00:46:52,680
through another field where he thinks

977
00:46:56,569 --> 00:46:55,560
he's he can do it you know without being

978
00:47:00,530 --> 00:46:56,579
noticed

979
00:47:04,010 --> 00:47:00,540
and he comes out within something like

980
00:47:06,589 --> 00:47:04,020
50 sheets of the 50 meters of that

981
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,599
object and he sees it's not a helicopter

982
00:47:11,329 --> 00:47:08,400
for one thing it doesn't have a

983
00:47:14,510 --> 00:47:11,339
propeller uh it's sitting on a small

984
00:47:17,290 --> 00:47:14,520
landing gear and it's x-shaped and there

985
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:21,250
humans short humans

986
00:47:27,770 --> 00:47:24,240
like the ones

987
00:47:31,690 --> 00:47:27,780
at Trinity there are about three feet

988
00:47:35,290 --> 00:47:31,700
tall they breed our air they don't have

989
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:35,300
you know a helmet or breathing equipment

990
00:47:41,290 --> 00:47:38,160
and they are looking at it

991
00:47:45,950 --> 00:47:41,300
they have some sort of uniform

992
00:47:49,130 --> 00:47:45,960
and as he goes closer again trying to

993
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:49,140
engage them I mean this is remedy so

994
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:51,780
people will talk to strangers okay this

995
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:54,960
is an open area and he's on his land you

996
00:48:00,829 --> 00:47:57,839
know so he wants to know what they are

997
00:48:03,470 --> 00:48:00,839
doing there so he's walking towards them

998
00:48:05,450 --> 00:48:03,480
he's not afraid he's not somebody who is

999
00:48:07,490 --> 00:48:05,460
likely to be afraid of very much because

1000
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,500
he was one of the leaders of the

1001
00:48:12,770 --> 00:48:10,079
resistance during World War II in the

1002
00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:12,780
area so he knows his territory very well

1003
00:48:18,589 --> 00:48:16,079
the John Downs later when they uh

1004
00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:18,599
interrogate him are going to be very

1005
00:48:26,510 --> 00:48:22,260
very respectful of him because he's uh

1006
00:48:30,109 --> 00:48:26,520
his his wife is the mayor of the town

1007
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:30,119
um so this is this is serious and

1008
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:34,319
the one of the small guys uh take

1009
00:48:39,710 --> 00:48:36,420
something from his belt

1010
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:39,720
and puts him at him and he's paralyzed

1011
00:48:46,130 --> 00:48:43,680
now I I asked various doctors you know

1012
00:48:48,650 --> 00:48:46,140
about what kind of priorities is that

1013
00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:48,660
would be because he doesn't fall he's

1014
00:48:55,609 --> 00:48:52,260
still standing he can see he can think

1015
00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:55,619
he just cannot move his muscles

1016
00:48:59,770 --> 00:48:59,040
and he's going to remain paralyzed for a

1017
00:49:03,050 --> 00:48:59,780
while

1018
00:49:05,690 --> 00:49:03,060
they they look at him they do a couple

1019
00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:05,700
of things around and then they go back

1020
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:09,540
into the object and the object itself it

1021
00:49:13,370 --> 00:49:12,000
takes out at an angle very fast and

1022
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:13,380
vanishes

1023
00:49:21,230 --> 00:49:17,760
in midair okay it doesn't go away to the

1024
00:49:24,109 --> 00:49:21,240
to the Horizon to a point in the sky it

1025
00:49:24,829 --> 00:49:24,119
just vanishes immediate

1026
00:49:29,150 --> 00:49:24,839
um

1027
00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:29,160
he's left in his field paralyzed

1028
00:49:35,270 --> 00:49:32,460
for about 20 minutes and over 20 minutes

1029
00:49:38,089 --> 00:49:35,280
is going to regain he thought he was

1030
00:49:40,670 --> 00:49:38,099
going to die right there okay by then he

1031
00:49:43,370 --> 00:49:40,680
understands this is not a helicopter

1032
00:49:45,530 --> 00:49:43,380
that's not you know a new a new

1033
00:49:46,990 --> 00:49:45,540
invention of the French Air Force or

1034
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:47,000
anything like that

1035
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:50,400
but slowly he regains control of these

1036
00:49:57,230 --> 00:49:53,700
muscles and goes back to the town and

1037
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:57,240
reports it to the to the police that

1038
00:50:02,210 --> 00:49:59,280
triggers a whole series of

1039
00:50:06,589 --> 00:50:02,220
Investigations by uh of course the

1040
00:50:08,569 --> 00:50:06,599
police the Anderson Armory take the the

1041
00:50:11,569 --> 00:50:08,579
testimony

1042
00:50:13,790 --> 00:50:11,579
he doesn't tell them everything again

1043
00:50:16,809 --> 00:50:13,800
there is a feeling which maybe is

1044
00:50:20,450 --> 00:50:16,819
special to the south of France

1045
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:20,460
that there are some things and and you

1046
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:22,079
find that in a number of witnesses

1047
00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:24,480
contrary to again to what many

1048
00:50:28,849 --> 00:50:27,180
scientists think that you know you're

1049
00:50:31,069 --> 00:50:28,859
before a scientist you're going to tell

1050
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:31,079
him everything well that's not true and

1051
00:50:35,950 --> 00:50:33,780
even when you're with your doctor you

1052
00:50:38,990 --> 00:50:35,960
may not tell everything to your doctor

1053
00:50:41,690 --> 00:50:39,000
uh it the conditions have to be right

1054
00:50:44,210 --> 00:50:41,700
and there has to be a lot of trust to

1055
00:50:49,089 --> 00:50:44,220
talk about intimate things this was

1056
00:50:51,950 --> 00:50:49,099
intimate to him because he now wants to

1057
00:50:55,130 --> 00:50:51,960
understand by himself

1058
00:50:57,470 --> 00:50:55,140
you know what what this is he wants to

1059
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:57,480
see if it's going to happen again in

1060
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,480
fact it will happen again and he's not

1061
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:03,359
going to report it the second time

1062
00:51:09,170 --> 00:51:06,420
I know that because I I was there with

1063
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:09,180
someone who has a house there who knows

1064
00:51:16,609 --> 00:51:11,760
the town very well and is well respected

1065
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:16,619
in the community and who knew about the

1066
00:51:22,190 --> 00:51:19,680
other Witnesses and we could gain his

1067
00:51:23,809 --> 00:51:22,200
trust and there are some things but he

1068
00:51:27,309 --> 00:51:23,819
asked us not to

1069
00:51:30,109 --> 00:51:27,319
the published and we never published

1070
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:30,119
but the

1071
00:51:35,390 --> 00:51:33,119
the the investigation by the gender

1072
00:51:37,849 --> 00:51:35,400
Murray and the police is going to

1073
00:51:40,190 --> 00:51:37,859
trigger other things the French Air

1074
00:51:41,630 --> 00:51:40,200
Force is going to come the French

1075
00:51:43,790 --> 00:51:41,640
customs

1076
00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:43,800
French intelligence

1077
00:51:48,589 --> 00:51:46,140
are going to come so it's going to be

1078
00:51:52,910 --> 00:51:48,599
interviewed by five different agencies

1079
00:51:55,849 --> 00:51:52,920
of the state okay so this is not the U.S

1080
00:51:58,569 --> 00:51:55,859
just the ordinary UFO story

1081
00:52:02,329 --> 00:51:58,579
in socovolution remember

1082
00:52:05,390 --> 00:52:02,339
lonely Zamora the officer Zamora is

1083
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:05,400
going to be interrogated by first his

1084
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:07,680
colleagues at the local police

1085
00:52:11,470 --> 00:52:10,800
department but that's going to trigger

1086
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:11,480
um

1087
00:52:16,190 --> 00:52:13,920
investigations by other people they

1088
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,200
there are three people from the FBI who

1089
00:52:21,710 --> 00:52:19,200
are in town who help in securing the

1090
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,720
area they don't really help in the

1091
00:52:27,730 --> 00:52:23,760
investigation because they don't have

1092
00:52:31,370 --> 00:52:27,740
any uh you know any justification for

1093
00:52:35,809 --> 00:52:31,380
this is not a federal case this is this

1094
00:52:38,270 --> 00:52:35,819
is purely New Mexico police case but the

1095
00:52:41,390 --> 00:52:38,280
Air Force is of course it's reported to

1096
00:52:45,470 --> 00:52:41,400
Project Blue Book Project we're looking

1097
00:52:47,150 --> 00:52:45,480
like detail the story in in Trinity uh

1098
00:52:49,609 --> 00:52:47,160
project where books is going to send to

1099
00:52:52,490 --> 00:52:49,619
officers there they don't do a very good

1100
00:52:54,010 --> 00:52:52,500
job they antagonize everybody including

1101
00:52:58,190 --> 00:52:54,020
the police

1102
00:53:00,250 --> 00:52:58,200
but then white sense is going to send

1103
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:00,260
somebody because they think it could be

1104
00:53:08,990 --> 00:53:04,800
one of their devices that has gone off

1105
00:53:11,690 --> 00:53:09,000
the reservation and it turns out very

1106
00:53:14,990 --> 00:53:11,700
quickly that has nothing to do with any

1107
00:53:17,230 --> 00:53:15,000
of the experiments going on inside White

1108
00:53:20,809 --> 00:53:17,240
Sands so

1109
00:53:23,109 --> 00:53:20,819
we have an abundance of observation

1110
00:53:29,870 --> 00:53:23,119
including material

1111
00:53:32,990 --> 00:53:29,880
the site so it's a very very rich

1112
00:53:36,109 --> 00:53:33,000
very rich story and some of the things

1113
00:53:39,470 --> 00:53:36,119
that I discovered and published here

1114
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:39,480
have never been published before you

1115
00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:42,720
know and I think they they bring another

1116
00:53:49,069 --> 00:53:46,559
level of of clarity to the to the

1117
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:49,079
Sapporo case that wasn't there before

1118
00:53:54,890 --> 00:53:52,220
it's certainly not a hoax

1119
00:53:58,730 --> 00:53:54,900
and there were things that happened

1120
00:54:03,049 --> 00:53:58,740
after all of this over white inside

1121
00:54:07,130 --> 00:54:03,059
White Sands where a car of a of an

1122
00:54:11,450 --> 00:54:07,140
officer than his family was stopped by

1123
00:54:14,270 --> 00:54:11,460
the light from an object that seems to

1124
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:14,280
have been in this Coral object that flew

1125
00:54:19,069 --> 00:54:16,800
up exactly in that direction so this

1126
00:54:21,770 --> 00:54:19,079
happens a couple of hours later the

1127
00:54:25,089 --> 00:54:21,780
object is over the mountains over the

1128
00:54:27,250 --> 00:54:25,099
range uh that overlooks the

1129
00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:27,260
White Sands

1130
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,540
military area so they that that

1131
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:32,640
observation is hasn't been published

1132
00:54:40,910 --> 00:54:38,160
before and so again uh the creatures are

1133
00:54:44,089 --> 00:54:40,920
the same it's not a flying salsa there

1134
00:54:46,670 --> 00:54:44,099
is no flying salsa in the book it's uh

1135
00:54:50,150 --> 00:54:46,680
always an egg-shaped object with

1136
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:50,160
extraordinary production properties that

1137
00:54:56,829 --> 00:54:53,520
that has you know the ability to move

1138
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:56,839
without making a noise

1139
00:55:03,530 --> 00:55:01,200
uh and the creatures are the same they

1140
00:55:05,809 --> 00:55:03,540
are described in the same way they

1141
00:55:08,750 --> 00:55:05,819
breathe our air and they are essentially

1142
00:55:09,650 --> 00:55:08,760
three feet tall right and you mentioned

1143
00:55:13,849 --> 00:55:09,660
that

1144
00:55:16,430 --> 00:55:13,859
um after the two boys stole the Tesoro

1145
00:55:19,730 --> 00:55:16,440
the treasure I hope I'm pronouncing that

1146
00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:19,740
correctly uh and he hit it under the uh

1147
00:55:24,049 --> 00:55:22,200
Ranch hands house underneath the

1148
00:55:25,970 --> 00:55:24,059
floorboards and he wakes up in the

1149
00:55:27,950 --> 00:55:25,980
middle of the night and there's three

1150
00:55:29,630 --> 00:55:27,960
little entities in his room asking them

1151
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:29,640
for the treasure and he's like what the

1152
00:55:33,829 --> 00:55:32,160
heck are you talking about uh that's

1153
00:55:35,569 --> 00:55:33,839
crazy that's that's something out of

1154
00:55:37,490 --> 00:55:35,579
like a movie or something you can't make

1155
00:55:40,130 --> 00:55:37,500
that stuff up that's you cannot make

1156
00:55:44,329 --> 00:55:40,140
that up no did he quit shortly after

1157
00:55:47,450 --> 00:55:44,339
that or did he he said Senor of course

1158
00:55:51,290 --> 00:55:47,460
speak Spanish uh you know I I don't want

1159
00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:51,300
to sleep here anymore you know and I I

1160
00:55:56,930 --> 00:55:53,640
don't want to to work on this Ranch

1161
00:55:59,809 --> 00:55:56,940
anymore well you can only get paid so

1162
00:56:01,490 --> 00:55:59,819
much to get abducted after a while I'm

1163
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:01,500
out I think I don't need money that bad

1164
00:56:06,829 --> 00:56:04,559
I'm good yeah you know you you bring up

1165
00:56:10,370 --> 00:56:06,839
something important here I think the

1166
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:10,380
reason is that he probably thought that

1167
00:56:17,390 --> 00:56:13,680
what he had seen was from the devil yeah

1168
00:56:21,950 --> 00:56:17,400
it remindses me it reminds me that Dr

1169
00:56:24,370 --> 00:56:21,960
heinek told me when he asked Lonnie

1170
00:56:28,569 --> 00:56:24,380
Zamora officers

1171
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:28,579
uh you know to to give him his testimony

1172
00:56:35,690 --> 00:56:32,000
Zamora Zamora

1173
00:56:37,690 --> 00:56:35,700
didn't want to talk to heinet until he

1174
00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:37,700
had spoken to a priest

1175
00:56:44,930 --> 00:56:41,940
so he he went to see a priest to tell

1176
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:44,940
him about what he had seen before he

1177
00:56:49,549 --> 00:56:48,240
would allow himself to be interviewed by

1178
00:56:51,470 --> 00:56:49,559
Dr Heinen

1179
00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:51,480
what are your thoughts on sort of the

1180
00:56:56,329 --> 00:56:53,940
religious or spiritual implications you

1181
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,339
know throughout history have Angels

1182
00:57:00,589 --> 00:56:59,040
really been the same phenomenon just you

1183
00:57:02,450 --> 00:57:00,599
know described to the best of their

1184
00:57:04,490 --> 00:57:02,460
ability at their time I mean if you've

1185
00:57:07,069 --> 00:57:04,500
never seen a UFO you're not going to say

1186
00:57:10,069 --> 00:57:07,079
was a UFO you might say it was an egg or

1187
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:10,079
you know an acorn or an avocado or

1188
00:57:14,510 --> 00:57:12,000
something so do you think there are

1189
00:57:17,089 --> 00:57:14,520
correlations between our sense of

1190
00:57:19,270 --> 00:57:17,099
spirituality things we've seen

1191
00:57:22,609 --> 00:57:19,280
um you know what's your Insight on that

1192
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:22,619
in in many countries that's the first

1193
00:57:29,770 --> 00:57:25,680
thing that people may think about you

1194
00:57:37,730 --> 00:57:34,370
and this is so obviously different from

1195
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:37,740
the ordinary reality and what they what

1196
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:40,319
they've learned in school and so on that

1197
00:57:46,609 --> 00:57:43,440
it can only be uh something that they

1198
00:57:50,210 --> 00:57:46,619
would link to religion in some way now I

1199
00:57:51,770 --> 00:57:50,220
have no authority to speak on that on

1200
00:57:54,049 --> 00:57:51,780
that subject

1201
00:58:03,470 --> 00:57:54,059
the

1202
00:58:05,349 --> 00:58:03,480
know both both from a point of view of

1203
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:05,359
uh

1204
00:58:09,890 --> 00:58:08,160
you know Christianity but also from the

1205
00:58:13,609 --> 00:58:09,900
point of view of other of other

1206
00:58:15,950 --> 00:58:13,619
religions uh the

1207
00:58:21,410 --> 00:58:15,960
uh you know

1208
00:58:27,170 --> 00:58:21,420
I I went to uh I I was I gave an address

1209
00:58:31,370 --> 00:58:27,180
to a financial meeting in Saudi Arabia a

1210
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:31,380
few few years ago which was uh uh you

1211
00:58:36,250 --> 00:58:34,079
know a world meeting on technology and

1212
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:36,260
investment

1213
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:39,780
a little bit like the the the meetings

1214
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:43,520
in Switzerland so there were a number of

1215
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:46,319
dignitaries there and so on and there

1216
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:50,720
was we had a a session about UFOs

1217
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:54,960
that had been programmed just to inject

1218
00:58:59,930 --> 00:58:57,839
an idea about the technologies that were

1219
00:59:02,089 --> 00:58:59,940
at the frontier you know the things that

1220
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:02,099
we still don't understand

1221
00:59:06,770 --> 00:59:03,599
so that triggered a number of

1222
00:59:07,490 --> 00:59:06,780
discussions with

1223
00:59:09,650 --> 00:59:07,500
um

1224
00:59:11,630 --> 00:59:09,660
people in Korea you know mostly

1225
00:59:14,930 --> 00:59:11,640
businessmen you have that businessmen

1226
00:59:17,210 --> 00:59:14,940
and entrepreneurs Financial people from

1227
00:59:20,809 --> 00:59:17,220
Saudi Arabia

1228
00:59:23,569 --> 00:59:20,819
who were you know very sophisticated in

1229
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:23,579
in their fields and especially in

1230
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:25,920
finance so and so they are obviously

1231
00:59:32,930 --> 00:59:28,400
interested in everything in the world

1232
00:59:37,789 --> 00:59:32,940
and they took me aside and one of them

1233
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:37,799
actually became friendly with a young a

1234
00:59:43,370 --> 00:59:40,400
young man a young engineer

1235
00:59:45,650 --> 00:59:43,380
who had come to California I'd studied

1236
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:45,660
in California and went back to his

1237
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:47,520
country and

1238
00:59:52,069 --> 00:59:50,160
we were talking about that and I I said

1239
00:59:52,809 --> 00:59:52,079
but you know in

1240
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:52,819
in

1241
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:56,160
the Islamic tradition I mean you have

1242
01:00:01,490 --> 00:59:59,280
the gents you know the jinns come out of

1243
01:00:05,089 --> 01:00:01,500
nowhere and there they can be shot

1244
01:00:09,530 --> 01:00:05,099
appearance short people who do magical

1245
01:00:12,430 --> 01:00:09,540
things and manipulate things uh in in

1246
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:12,440
the miraculous ways and

1247
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:17,280
you had that in your old traditions

1248
01:00:24,890 --> 01:00:21,660
he says what all traditions

1249
01:00:28,490 --> 01:00:24,900
you know I mean the

1250
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:28,500
what we're taught is that the Gen are

1251
01:00:33,069 --> 01:00:29,520
here now

1252
01:00:36,069 --> 01:00:33,079
yeah he told me a story from his family

1253
01:00:38,569 --> 01:00:36,079
and you know these are well-to-do people

1254
01:00:42,589 --> 01:00:38,579
well-educated people you know

1255
01:00:45,530 --> 01:00:42,599
sophisticated uh in technology uh his

1256
01:00:50,510 --> 01:00:45,540
father and his uncle had flown Jets you

1257
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:50,520
know in Saudi Air Force you know and so

1258
01:00:59,170 --> 01:00:55,200
um he said that my house when they my

1259
01:01:04,910 --> 01:00:59,180
cousin wanted to uh

1260
01:01:08,089 --> 01:01:04,920
get some some water so from uh and he

1261
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:08,099
there was a a recipient that was on the

1262
01:01:15,230 --> 01:01:11,520
stove uh that and he wanted to use the

1263
01:01:19,490 --> 01:01:15,240
stove to uh to heat his coffee or his

1264
01:01:22,190 --> 01:01:19,500
tea and he took the the recipients full

1265
01:01:24,710 --> 01:01:22,200
of hot water and emptied it out the door

1266
01:01:26,809 --> 01:01:24,720
you know in the yard

1267
01:01:29,809 --> 01:01:26,819
well of course what he didn't do was

1268
01:01:32,109 --> 01:01:29,819
that there was a gin there that was

1269
01:01:35,390 --> 01:01:32,119
invisible

1270
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:35,400
but the you're not supposed to do this

1271
01:01:42,490 --> 01:01:38,880
you're you're supposed to say you know

1272
01:01:46,190 --> 01:01:42,500
if if there is a creature there or

1273
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,200
something there you know that I may harm

1274
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:48,240
you know please go away because I'm

1275
01:01:53,930 --> 01:01:51,359
going to empty this hot water okay

1276
01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:53,940
and he didn't say that he didn't think

1277
01:01:57,710 --> 01:01:55,980
that there could be you know an entity

1278
01:01:59,630 --> 01:01:57,720
there and there was a gin and the Jin

1279
01:02:03,289 --> 01:01:59,640
took him away over

1280
01:02:05,390 --> 01:02:03,299
so he started acting crazy he started

1281
01:02:07,490 --> 01:02:05,400
you know not making any sense he

1282
01:02:10,130 --> 01:02:07,500
couldn't speak he couldn't speak

1283
01:02:12,770 --> 01:02:10,140
intelligently and so on and the the

1284
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:12,780
family called a special

1285
01:02:19,309 --> 01:02:16,799
um Iman you know who was specialized in

1286
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:19,319
talking to the gym just like in the

1287
01:02:25,910 --> 01:02:23,520
Catholic church to have uh you know

1288
01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:25,920
special priests who are trained to talk

1289
01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:28,920
to uh demons

1290
01:02:32,530 --> 01:02:31,020
well we call them marriage counselors

1291
01:02:42,410 --> 01:02:32,540
yeah

1292
01:02:44,809 --> 01:02:42,420
so uh the Iman and you know says a

1293
01:02:49,309 --> 01:02:44,819
prayer over this old man and then

1294
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:49,319
addresses a Jinn and says to the Jinn

1295
01:02:52,430 --> 01:02:50,880
now this is I couldn't believe that

1296
01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:52,440
conversation I mean this is a

1297
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:55,680
conversation you know uh at the side of

1298
01:03:00,950 --> 01:02:57,839
the conference on international finance

1299
01:03:03,890 --> 01:03:00,960
with a very sophisticated young salary

1300
01:03:06,109 --> 01:03:03,900
he was going to the standard okay and he

1301
01:03:10,670 --> 01:03:06,119
says well they you know he wasn't funny

1302
01:03:14,210 --> 01:03:10,680
he was there uh the Imam asks talks to

1303
01:03:16,609 --> 01:03:14,220
the Gen and with a particular prayer

1304
01:03:20,089 --> 01:03:16,619
special prayer just like an exorcist

1305
01:03:22,130 --> 01:03:20,099
would do and begs him to leave the young

1306
01:03:25,069 --> 01:03:22,140
men because he says a young man didn't

1307
01:03:27,710 --> 01:03:25,079
mean harm he did something terrible in

1308
01:03:30,349 --> 01:03:27,720
throwing the hot water there but he

1309
01:03:34,010 --> 01:03:30,359
didn't realize that you were there so

1310
01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:34,020
please let let him go on with his rights

1311
01:03:41,450 --> 01:03:38,520
then you know that the young men seem to

1312
01:03:44,450 --> 01:03:41,460
wake up and was normal again

1313
01:03:47,390 --> 01:03:44,460
now this is contemporary this is not a

1314
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:47,400
story from the Middle Ages this is not

1315
01:03:55,309 --> 01:03:51,359
the story from you know Arabia of you

1316
01:03:57,230 --> 01:03:55,319
know two centuries ago this is now

1317
01:04:00,849 --> 01:03:57,240
so

1318
01:04:04,030 --> 01:04:00,859
um yes I mean you cannot blame people

1319
01:04:10,430 --> 01:04:04,040
for relating

1320
01:04:13,430 --> 01:04:10,440
UFOs or uaps to you know to a religious

1321
01:04:16,190 --> 01:04:13,440
uh to you know to religious uh

1322
01:04:18,589 --> 01:04:16,200
imagination of their religious tradition

1323
01:04:20,329 --> 01:04:18,599
right and we did the same over that yeah

1324
01:04:21,950 --> 01:04:20,339
sorry people say you should never

1325
01:04:24,349 --> 01:04:21,960
discuss two things with your friends

1326
01:04:27,470 --> 01:04:24,359
religion and politics and the whole

1327
01:04:29,870 --> 01:04:27,480
topic of ufology delves into both of

1328
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:29,880
those because there are religious you

1329
01:04:33,410 --> 01:04:31,920
know ramifications and if the government

1330
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:33,420
knows and not telling us there's

1331
01:04:37,730 --> 01:04:36,000
political ramification so it's a very

1332
01:04:39,950 --> 01:04:37,740
fine line and that's why I think there's

1333
01:04:42,049 --> 01:04:39,960
so much infighting because those two

1334
01:04:44,270 --> 01:04:42,059
topics conjure up so much emotion from

1335
01:04:46,010 --> 01:04:44,280
people and you very quickly become

1336
01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:46,020
polarized when you're like oh I can't

1337
01:04:50,450 --> 01:04:48,240
believe you you believe in that like now

1338
01:04:52,609 --> 01:04:50,460
we're not friends it's very easy for

1339
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:52,619
people to get fired up but essentially

1340
01:04:55,730 --> 01:04:54,240
if we're gonna find the answers here

1341
01:04:58,430 --> 01:04:55,740
like you said we need to suspend

1342
01:05:00,770 --> 01:04:58,440
judgment and not get so quick to just

1343
01:05:02,569 --> 01:05:00,780
jump because this isn't an old thing

1344
01:05:04,430 --> 01:05:02,579
some things are still happening right

1345
01:05:07,730 --> 01:05:04,440
now you know and some things have never

1346
01:05:09,650 --> 01:05:07,740
stopped and uh we just don't know and

1347
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:09,660
it's maybe it's not Stranger than we

1348
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:11,520
think it's stranger than we are ever

1349
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:14,160
going to be able to think it may just be

1350
01:05:17,870 --> 01:05:16,319
above our pay grade and who knows we may

1351
01:05:21,410 --> 01:05:17,880
never know fully what's actually going

1352
01:05:26,210 --> 01:05:21,420
on and when you choose the scholarship

1353
01:05:29,170 --> 01:05:26,220
is is appropriate here you know uh one

1354
01:05:32,510 --> 01:05:29,180
of them all uh intense

1355
01:05:33,670 --> 01:05:32,520
studies is going on now at Rice

1356
01:05:38,750 --> 01:05:33,680
University

1357
01:05:41,990 --> 01:05:38,760
with Professor kreiber has that

1358
01:05:46,190 --> 01:05:42,000
have assembled probably the launches

1359
01:05:48,770 --> 01:05:46,200
collection of UFO archives I've done it

1360
01:05:51,289 --> 01:05:48,780
to all the archives that I'm not using

1361
01:05:55,010 --> 01:05:51,299
anymore other than I've used for my my

1362
01:05:58,069 --> 01:05:55,020
research to them with Chris trieber has

1363
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:58,079
donated is very extensive correspondence

1364
01:06:03,410 --> 01:06:00,000
you know that he received after

1365
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:03,420
communion that his wife you know helped

1366
01:06:08,450 --> 01:06:07,440
organize and so on it's there at rice in

1367
01:06:12,410 --> 01:06:08,460
Houston

1368
01:06:17,329 --> 01:06:12,420
you know a few a few miles from NASA and

1369
01:06:21,289 --> 01:06:17,339
uh the uh there is research going on and

1370
01:06:24,829 --> 01:06:21,299
that that pool of research is going to

1371
01:06:28,670 --> 01:06:24,839
be documented indexed and and actively

1372
01:06:32,569 --> 01:06:28,680
used in in research

1373
01:06:35,089 --> 01:06:32,579
Dr Haynes also after I donated my

1374
01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:35,099
Collections and which distributed the

1375
01:06:41,569 --> 01:06:38,760
same Dr Haynes also collected his

1376
01:06:44,450 --> 01:06:41,579
collection of course he was at Nasa and

1377
01:06:47,329 --> 01:06:44,460
has then the best analyzes of pilot

1378
01:06:50,750 --> 01:06:47,339
sightings you know in in the last 40

1379
01:06:53,630 --> 01:06:50,760
years and his uh his records are there

1380
01:06:56,750 --> 01:06:53,640
as well and they will be available they

1381
01:06:59,870 --> 01:06:56,760
will preserved and available for future

1382
01:07:02,029 --> 01:06:59,880
research so the the department that

1383
01:07:04,730 --> 01:07:02,039
holds on that collection is the

1384
01:07:08,809 --> 01:07:04,740
Department of religion at Rice

1385
01:07:11,930 --> 01:07:08,819
University the school of religion

1386
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:11,940
um in the the department of humanities

1387
01:07:18,410 --> 01:07:15,119
which is great because there there is no

1388
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:18,420
preconceived idea you know about what it

1389
01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:23,760
is you know uh it's it's not as you

1390
01:07:29,630 --> 01:07:25,920
don't get into the same

1391
01:07:32,569 --> 01:07:29,640
arguments as you do when you talk to you

1392
01:07:35,150 --> 01:07:32,579
know the department of physics uh yeah

1393
01:07:37,069 --> 01:07:35,160
because in the humanities you have to

1394
01:07:38,510 --> 01:07:37,079
consider everything and accept

1395
01:07:42,950 --> 01:07:38,520
everything

1396
01:07:46,250 --> 01:07:42,960
in in a scholar anyway so I I'm very uh

1397
01:07:49,309 --> 01:07:46,260
very happy that my collections are there

1398
01:07:50,270 --> 01:07:49,319
together with about 10 other collections

1399
01:07:54,349 --> 01:07:50,280
of other

1400
01:07:56,270 --> 01:07:54,359
researchers uh you know from the last 50

1401
01:07:58,849 --> 01:07:56,280
years

1402
01:08:00,890 --> 01:07:58,859
as far as um the threat narrative

1403
01:08:03,349 --> 01:08:00,900
because I we mentioned that quite a bit

1404
01:08:05,750 --> 01:08:03,359
and we asked clients or not clients

1405
01:08:07,690 --> 01:08:05,760
customers customers yeah that's a good

1406
01:08:10,029 --> 01:08:07,700
one yes yes

1407
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:10,039
we're not making any money off of this

1408
01:08:15,109 --> 01:08:13,200
customers customers yeah uh but we asked

1409
01:08:16,849 --> 01:08:15,119
each guest um you know what do you think

1410
01:08:19,130 --> 01:08:16,859
about the threat narrative because we

1411
01:08:20,630 --> 01:08:19,140
keep hearing that quite a bit from the

1412
01:08:22,430 --> 01:08:20,640
military point of view saying you know

1413
01:08:23,570 --> 01:08:22,440
like if we disclose it's going to be

1414
01:08:26,930 --> 01:08:23,580
National

1415
01:08:28,970 --> 01:08:26,940
security risk or you know the threat

1416
01:08:31,849 --> 01:08:28,980
narrative is still there in your opinion

1417
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:31,859
I haven't researched this for so long do

1418
01:08:35,809 --> 01:08:33,120
you think there's a threat narrative

1419
01:08:38,450 --> 01:08:35,819
here or do you think it seems to be an

1420
01:08:42,050 --> 01:08:38,460
okay uh you know sort of situation where

1421
01:08:42,060 --> 01:08:44,390
um

1422
01:08:50,510 --> 01:08:46,849
there is a lot in your questions I

1423
01:08:55,370 --> 01:08:50,520
remember going to Wright-Patterson Air

1424
01:08:58,370 --> 01:08:55,380
Force Base with no God in the 60s

1425
01:09:00,349 --> 01:08:58,380
um to to to to to to look at The

1426
01:09:02,930 --> 01:09:00,359
Archives of the Blue Book archives which

1427
01:09:05,870 --> 01:09:02,940
by the way have always been unclassified

1428
01:09:08,329 --> 01:09:05,880
uh you know and every time you see uh

1429
01:09:10,789 --> 01:09:08,339
somebody does a documentary on it it's

1430
01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:10,799
the secret Trials of the United States

1431
01:09:16,130 --> 01:09:13,859
well you've got 20 000 cases there that

1432
01:09:17,630 --> 01:09:16,140
are open that anybody could have any

1433
01:09:20,150 --> 01:09:17,640
scientist could have asked to look at

1434
01:09:23,269 --> 01:09:20,160
and they never did you know including

1435
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:23,279
Carl Sagan including all those guys uh

1436
01:09:28,729 --> 01:09:25,440
who couldn't ask for access to their

1437
01:09:30,349 --> 01:09:28,739
friends well

1438
01:09:30,890 --> 01:09:30,359
the

1439
01:09:31,789 --> 01:09:30,900
[Music]

1440
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:31,799
um

1441
01:09:38,990 --> 01:09:35,520
the the phenomenon is provocative I mean

1442
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:39,000
it is it comes close to aircraft

1443
01:09:44,329 --> 01:09:42,480
it comes close to civilian aircraft but

1444
01:09:47,809 --> 01:09:44,339
one of the things that the French

1445
01:09:52,910 --> 01:09:47,819
research has shown which isn't generally

1446
01:09:55,729 --> 01:09:52,920
known is that in that database

1447
01:09:58,070 --> 01:09:55,739
um the the behavior of the UFO is

1448
01:10:01,790 --> 01:09:58,080
different when it's a military aircraft

1449
01:10:04,610 --> 01:10:01,800
or a civilian aircraft so in the

1450
01:10:06,770 --> 01:10:04,620
database which is probably one of the

1451
01:10:10,930 --> 01:10:06,780
top one of the best

1452
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:10,940
uh studied databases we have

1453
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:14,400
now civilian aircraft there are

1454
01:10:20,030 --> 01:10:17,760
commercial commercial aircraft and there

1455
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:20,040
are you know military aircrafts so you

1456
01:10:28,430 --> 01:10:23,760
have everything from uh B2 bombers and

1457
01:10:29,950 --> 01:10:28,440
f-18s to Piper cups okay and and of

1458
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:29,960
course you know United

1459
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:34,320
23 7 heavy uh going from New York to San

1460
01:10:40,010 --> 01:10:37,440
Francisco you have all of them but the

1461
01:10:42,110 --> 01:10:40,020
behavior of the phenomenon is different

1462
01:10:44,570 --> 01:10:42,120
and that's something that has not been

1463
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:44,580
studied something that should be studied

1464
01:10:49,850 --> 01:10:47,520
that can be studied with good computer

1465
01:10:54,410 --> 01:10:49,860
science you know you can look at the

1466
01:10:56,270 --> 01:10:54,420
parameters with uh you know and that

1467
01:10:59,450 --> 01:10:56,280
that trial is available

1468
01:11:01,189 --> 01:10:59,460
and nobody's done that so you know where

1469
01:11:05,209 --> 01:11:01,199
is all that talk about we're going to

1470
01:11:08,950 --> 01:11:05,219
study that so on the the military fines

1471
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:08,960
showed uh

1472
01:11:15,290 --> 01:11:12,719
seem to show hostility

1473
01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:15,300
after all we've we've also got

1474
01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:18,960
you know instances where missile silos

1475
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:20,640
were turned off

1476
01:11:27,410 --> 01:11:24,480
and we know that happened in Russia it

1477
01:11:30,830 --> 01:11:27,420
happened before in the Soviet Union and

1478
01:11:31,669 --> 01:11:30,840
it it's happened in the U.S several

1479
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:31,679
times

1480
01:11:37,970 --> 01:11:35,040
where and there are also there's also at

1481
01:11:40,189 --> 01:11:37,980
least one case to my knowledge where a

1482
01:11:43,070 --> 01:11:40,199
large sequence was activated

1483
01:11:45,410 --> 01:11:43,080
you know the silo event and and the

1484
01:11:47,649 --> 01:11:45,420
launch sequence started well it's it's

1485
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:47,659
not supposed to start by itself you know

1486
01:11:52,790 --> 01:11:50,640
that's concerning yeah and it can't be

1487
01:11:54,649 --> 01:11:52,800
stopped either once it starts it's

1488
01:11:56,450 --> 01:11:54,659
nothing you can do right if you're not

1489
01:11:58,250 --> 01:11:56,460
manually turning those keys and

1490
01:12:00,050 --> 01:11:58,260
initiating the sequence I think Jim

1491
01:12:03,950 --> 01:12:00,060
semivan actually talked about this when

1492
01:12:05,630 --> 01:12:03,960
he was on our episode yeah yeah uh you

1493
01:12:08,330 --> 01:12:05,640
know and that could mean any irrational

1494
01:12:10,450 --> 01:12:08,340
I mean pure and simple for sure it's not

1495
01:12:13,510 --> 01:12:10,460
just an American problem

1496
01:12:17,209 --> 01:12:13,520
so uh

1497
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:17,219
the the phenomenon is seems to want to

1498
01:12:22,910 --> 01:12:19,679
get our attention

1499
01:12:26,090 --> 01:12:22,920
you know I think again uh you know think

1500
01:12:29,330 --> 01:12:26,100
about Trinity you know uh that the

1501
01:12:32,090 --> 01:12:29,340
Trinity one month after the first

1502
01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:32,100
nuclear explosion two days after the

1503
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:34,980
capitulation of Japan this thing shows

1504
01:12:42,169 --> 01:12:38,880
up and it it is a it's not a crutch it's

1505
01:12:44,330 --> 01:12:42,179
it's a controlled crash the the thing is

1506
01:12:47,030 --> 01:12:44,340
intact you know an airplane would have

1507
01:12:49,790 --> 01:12:47,040
blown up into a thousand pieces when it

1508
01:12:55,270 --> 01:12:49,800
hit the communication tower that the

1509
01:12:58,850 --> 01:12:55,280
pilot reported uh the that the thing

1510
01:13:01,930 --> 01:12:58,860
digs a Boulevard down the hill makes a

1511
01:13:04,970 --> 01:13:01,940
turn and stops under power

1512
01:13:07,310 --> 01:13:04,980
uh but there is no visible source of

1513
01:13:10,430 --> 01:13:07,320
power there is no propeller there is no

1514
01:13:12,350 --> 01:13:10,440
there is nothing underneath and we we

1515
01:13:14,630 --> 01:13:12,360
know that from The Observers who were

1516
01:13:18,530 --> 01:13:14,640
there and you mentioned how how heavy is

1517
01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:18,540
this thing sir it's like thuds which no

1518
01:13:23,630 --> 01:13:20,940
propulsion no this is not cool this is

1519
01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:23,640
not a balloon okay yeah uh this is not

1520
01:13:30,229 --> 01:13:26,640
even an experimental Brew

1521
01:13:32,410 --> 01:13:30,239
you know so somebody is trying to get

1522
01:13:36,649 --> 01:13:32,420
our attention and

1523
01:13:39,050 --> 01:13:36,659
the the fact that I don't know what you

1524
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:39,060
know another historian I I don't know

1525
01:13:46,790 --> 01:13:42,960
what it means but the the bomb has never

1526
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:46,800
been used again in war

1527
01:13:53,870 --> 01:13:50,400
you know for since 1945.

1528
01:14:01,610 --> 01:13:57,250
um I don't know what it means but

1529
01:14:05,050 --> 01:14:01,620
you know it might mean that there was

1530
01:14:08,209 --> 01:14:05,060
a signal or warning given a trinity

1531
01:14:10,310 --> 01:14:08,219
uh the the people who've gone there and

1532
01:14:12,950 --> 01:14:10,320
have looked at the case

1533
01:14:15,290 --> 01:14:12,960
haven't noticed the correlation with the

1534
01:14:17,390 --> 01:14:15,300
atom bomb I mean how can you miss an

1535
01:14:19,729 --> 01:14:17,400
automotive you know and the number of

1536
01:14:22,370 --> 01:14:19,739
UFO groups have gone there they've

1537
01:14:25,070 --> 01:14:22,380
picked up a few plants you know they've

1538
01:14:26,570 --> 01:14:25,080
gone home with it and they've

1539
01:14:31,189 --> 01:14:26,580
interviewed the witness

1540
01:14:33,970 --> 01:14:31,199
and they they didn't notice her College

1541
01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:33,980
that they are standing within 20 miles

1542
01:14:41,330 --> 01:14:38,400
of the Trinity site of ground zero

1543
01:14:44,149 --> 01:14:41,340
and that you know a big part of doing

1544
01:14:46,850 --> 01:14:44,159
this book was reconstructing the history

1545
01:14:48,770 --> 01:14:46,860
of the end of World War II for me you

1546
01:14:52,970 --> 01:14:48,780
know I grew up in France

1547
01:14:56,830 --> 01:14:52,980
um yeah I was born in 1939 which is when

1548
01:15:00,590 --> 01:14:56,840
World War II started but by

1549
01:15:02,990 --> 01:15:00,600
1944-45 you know I was a toddler but I

1550
01:15:05,390 --> 01:15:03,000
knew what was happening and I could see

1551
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:05,400
what was going on in the sky I could

1552
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:07,760
hear the explosions I could see the

1553
01:15:13,970 --> 01:15:11,040
battles in the sky this is something

1554
01:15:17,689 --> 01:15:13,980
when you're four or five you know you

1555
01:15:20,209 --> 01:15:17,699
understand that my my parents you know

1556
01:15:23,689 --> 01:15:20,219
explained to me what was going on there

1557
01:15:26,209 --> 01:15:23,699
was no place to hide so I can relate to

1558
01:15:29,570 --> 01:15:26,219
that time I understand that it's hard

1559
01:15:32,930 --> 01:15:29,580
for someone who reads my book today who

1560
01:15:36,530 --> 01:15:32,940
is you know 25 or 45

1561
01:15:40,370 --> 01:15:36,540
to put himself or herself in the

1562
01:15:43,330 --> 01:15:40,380
conditions of you know New Mexico in

1563
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:43,340
August 1945.

1564
01:15:49,610 --> 01:15:46,800
it psychologically sociologically it's

1565
01:15:54,110 --> 01:15:49,620
it's hard to do it's another

1566
01:15:56,110 --> 01:15:54,120
you know era but uh there are people who

1567
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:56,120
remember fortunately

1568
01:16:04,130 --> 01:16:00,480
uh you know Mr Padilla Jose Padilla uh

1569
01:16:06,110 --> 01:16:04,140
wasn't you know an officer in the

1570
01:16:10,250 --> 01:16:06,120
hardware patrolling California for Metro

1571
01:16:13,310 --> 01:16:10,260
his life had fought in Korea he's still

1572
01:16:16,250 --> 01:16:13,320
alive very much alive and you know we've

1573
01:16:18,649 --> 01:16:16,260
become we've become friends and

1574
01:16:22,669 --> 01:16:18,659
um hearing members of that he has a very

1575
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:22,679
good memory of of of all those all those

1576
01:16:28,850 --> 01:16:25,679
events so he has to come back to your

1577
01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:28,860
question the the behavior of the

1578
01:16:34,970 --> 01:16:32,400
Phenomenon with respect to the the

1579
01:16:37,970 --> 01:16:34,980
military is different now the the

1580
01:16:41,090 --> 01:16:37,980
military has sensors in our design

1581
01:16:44,470 --> 01:16:41,100
now in the case of the Nimitz there is a

1582
01:16:48,709 --> 01:16:44,480
memo that I've I've seen

1583
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:48,719
uh you know five or six page Memo from

1584
01:16:52,669 --> 01:16:49,920
Raytheon

1585
01:16:56,330 --> 01:16:52,679
to the Navy

1586
01:16:58,250 --> 01:16:56,340
saying you know that tracking of that

1587
01:17:01,430 --> 01:16:58,260
object that you saw

1588
01:17:04,189 --> 01:17:01,440
that your Pilots described that tracking

1589
01:17:06,649 --> 01:17:04,199
was done with one of our cameras well

1590
01:17:09,050 --> 01:17:06,659
it's an infrared camera it's not a

1591
01:17:12,950 --> 01:17:09,060
visual account everybody talks about it

1592
01:17:15,709 --> 01:17:12,960
as if it was you know an ordinary camera

1593
01:17:17,830 --> 01:17:15,719
but it's a very very Advanced infrared

1594
01:17:22,550 --> 01:17:17,840
camera but they said

1595
01:17:24,050 --> 01:17:22,560
you know you we deliver it to you under

1596
01:17:26,870 --> 01:17:24,060
contract

1597
01:17:29,630 --> 01:17:26,880
to track enemy aircraft

1598
01:17:32,570 --> 01:17:29,640
you never said that you are going to

1599
01:17:35,330 --> 01:17:32,580
track UFOs with it okay I mean they

1600
01:17:38,090 --> 01:17:35,340
didn't say that but the the memo says

1601
01:17:40,430 --> 01:17:38,100
these are the characteristics these were

1602
01:17:43,070 --> 01:17:40,440
the parameters you gave us you will need

1603
01:17:46,570 --> 01:17:43,080
to track the exhaust of enemy Jets

1604
01:17:49,910 --> 01:17:46,580
essentially that's what we gave you

1605
01:17:52,970 --> 01:17:49,920
uh don't extrapolate from what we've

1606
01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:52,980
given you about what that device is

1607
01:17:58,430 --> 01:17:55,920
going to do in different conditions you

1608
01:18:00,350 --> 01:17:58,440
know you're not you can't do that you

1609
01:18:03,350 --> 01:18:00,360
have to take other things into account

1610
01:18:05,990 --> 01:18:03,360
now if you had radar I mean we don't

1611
01:18:08,270 --> 01:18:06,000
give you the distance okay people say

1612
01:18:10,850 --> 01:18:08,280
Well it busted me in so much well how do

1613
01:18:12,530 --> 01:18:10,860
they know well they they know because of

1614
01:18:16,310 --> 01:18:12,540
the radar they don't know because of the

1615
01:18:19,370 --> 01:18:16,320
camera okay in all of that probably the

1616
01:18:21,770 --> 01:18:19,380
eyes of the pilots are probably the best

1617
01:18:23,870 --> 01:18:21,780
detector you know because they are

1618
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:23,880
they've been in combat they are used

1619
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:26,400
they are professional they are used to

1620
01:18:31,250 --> 01:18:28,560
you know everything you can you can see

1621
01:18:34,250 --> 01:18:31,260
in the sky observers right yeah yes yeah

1622
01:18:37,250 --> 01:18:34,260
wonderful observers so I I would listen

1623
01:18:39,530 --> 01:18:37,260
to them first before going to what the

1624
01:18:42,050 --> 01:18:39,540
instruments say and there are ways of

1625
01:18:43,970 --> 01:18:42,060
fooling those instruments by the way an

1626
01:18:47,689 --> 01:18:43,980
instrument is just you know a piece of

1627
01:18:49,490 --> 01:18:47,699
hardware and a good engineer can come up

1628
01:18:52,490 --> 01:18:49,500
with ways of phoning any piece of

1629
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:52,500
Hardware I certainly know that after you

1630
01:18:57,890 --> 01:18:54,480
know being around some some advanced

1631
01:19:00,050 --> 01:18:57,900
technology in in Silicon Valley so I

1632
01:19:03,729 --> 01:19:00,060
would first listen to the pilots and

1633
01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:03,739
they are extraordinary men and women so

1634
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:09,199
but again they are in

1635
01:19:12,830 --> 01:19:11,280
surrounded with instruments in our

1636
01:19:15,410 --> 01:19:12,840
design for war

1637
01:19:19,729 --> 01:19:15,420
they are not designed for physics

1638
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:19,739
and so there is an overlap there that we

1639
01:19:24,290 --> 01:19:21,420
must consider

1640
01:19:30,890 --> 01:19:28,610
as far as as far as um the Trinity is

1641
01:19:33,770 --> 01:19:30,900
concerned you were mentioning that it

1642
01:19:35,209 --> 01:19:33,780
was within the blast radius of well not

1643
01:19:38,209 --> 01:19:35,219
blast radius but at least there would be

1644
01:19:40,430 --> 01:19:38,219
effects um Jose Padilla I believe and

1645
01:19:42,410 --> 01:19:40,440
his mother had seen the bomb go off

1646
01:19:44,169 --> 01:19:42,420
actually his mom was blinded for a

1647
01:19:48,169 --> 01:19:44,179
little bit if I'm not mistaken

1648
01:19:51,470 --> 01:19:48,179
one eye oh wow so they were close he

1649
01:19:54,350 --> 01:19:51,480
lost Hearing in one ear one of his ears

1650
01:19:56,810 --> 01:19:54,360
started bleeding with the shock wave

1651
01:19:59,149 --> 01:19:56,820
right did they is the reason they didn't

1652
01:20:00,950 --> 01:19:59,159
evacuate everybody because they again as

1653
01:20:03,169 --> 01:20:00,960
you mentioned it was four times larger

1654
01:20:05,510 --> 01:20:03,179
of an explosion and they thought you

1655
01:20:10,130 --> 01:20:05,520
know no big deal but I you know is that

1656
01:20:12,169 --> 01:20:10,140
the reason it was a big deal uh but they

1657
01:20:14,990 --> 01:20:12,179
knew they were surrounded with with

1658
01:20:19,490 --> 01:20:15,000
spies that they had not detected you

1659
01:20:22,490 --> 01:20:19,500
know German and and Soviet and old spies

1660
01:20:25,250 --> 01:20:22,500
and maybe other countries as well uh

1661
01:20:28,070 --> 01:20:25,260
within the teams uh around Trinity

1662
01:20:31,310 --> 01:20:28,080
around the ball so

1663
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:31,320
um they felt that they couldn't take the

1664
01:20:38,209 --> 01:20:36,960
the risk of uh the the the test being

1665
01:20:40,330 --> 01:20:38,219
compromised

1666
01:20:51,530 --> 01:20:40,340
the

1667
01:20:54,290 --> 01:20:51,540
that we found that that where we brought

1668
01:20:56,689 --> 01:20:54,300
on in this new edition is that they

1669
01:21:01,189 --> 01:20:56,699
didn't tell people even after the

1670
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:01,199
explosion even after the war when you

1671
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:03,120
know there was no more

1672
01:21:08,410 --> 01:21:05,520
secrecy about the actor Bob there was

1673
01:21:12,370 --> 01:21:08,420
about the fact that it existed I mean

1674
01:21:15,250 --> 01:21:12,380
Japanese who did that it existed

1675
01:21:18,610 --> 01:21:15,260
there were secrets about the physics but

1676
01:21:22,250 --> 01:21:18,620
they should have told the local people

1677
01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:22,260
you know don't drink the water from your

1678
01:21:28,010 --> 01:21:26,480
Reservoir that you know there was

1679
01:21:30,470 --> 01:21:28,020
it's

1680
01:21:37,930 --> 01:21:34,729
a really uh you know criminal that they

1681
01:21:41,090 --> 01:21:37,940
didn't tell people after the explosion

1682
01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:41,100
there there were strategic reasons for

1683
01:21:46,669 --> 01:21:44,159
hiding it until the point where they

1684
01:21:49,189 --> 01:21:46,679
were sure of what they had that they

1685
01:21:50,810 --> 01:21:49,199
that the bomb would work remember that

1686
01:21:54,850 --> 01:21:50,820
there were a number of physicists who

1687
01:21:57,890 --> 01:21:54,860
told them it will never work yeah and uh

1688
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:57,900
yes and we confirmly computed that the

1689
01:22:04,669 --> 01:22:00,480
bomb was four times more powerful than

1690
01:22:08,149 --> 01:22:04,679
the equations had suggested but uh you

1691
01:22:11,330 --> 01:22:08,159
know the fact is it worked but it it

1692
01:22:14,750 --> 01:22:11,340
also not all the plutonium was used and

1693
01:22:17,649 --> 01:22:14,760
the plutonium fell on the farms all

1694
01:22:20,090 --> 01:22:17,659
around within within that area of Mexico

1695
01:22:22,729 --> 01:22:20,100
driven by the wind that was going

1696
01:22:25,010 --> 01:22:22,739
exactly in that direction you know to

1697
01:22:27,169 --> 01:22:25,020
the to the Northeast and then he turned

1698
01:22:30,169 --> 01:22:27,179
to the West which would have placed it

1699
01:22:32,149 --> 01:22:30,179
over that that area was that because it

1700
01:22:34,250 --> 01:22:32,159
was a ground level detonation like I

1701
01:22:35,930 --> 01:22:34,260
know even Nagasaki they detonated the

1702
01:22:38,090 --> 01:22:35,940
bomb two thousand feet above the ground

1703
01:22:40,490 --> 01:22:38,100
so that the plutonium would have a

1704
01:22:42,590 --> 01:22:40,500
chance to burn up it was almost a more

1705
01:22:45,530 --> 01:22:42,600
Humane atom bomb if there is such a

1706
01:22:48,169 --> 01:22:45,540
thing I mean it was designed to not have

1707
01:22:51,110 --> 01:22:48,179
that same effect I found that in a

1708
01:22:53,930 --> 01:22:51,120
little brochure that I bought for five

1709
01:22:56,030 --> 01:22:53,940
bucks when I went to the Trinity site I

1710
01:22:57,290 --> 01:22:56,040
bought it from you know the Army store

1711
01:23:00,110 --> 01:22:57,300
yeah

1712
01:23:02,090 --> 01:23:00,120
um but I had never understood that

1713
01:23:04,189 --> 01:23:02,100
before then

1714
01:23:06,950 --> 01:23:04,199
you know that you cannot test an

1715
01:23:09,350 --> 01:23:06,960
automobile but everybody says it was a

1716
01:23:12,350 --> 01:23:09,360
test you know the scientists didn't test

1717
01:23:14,930 --> 01:23:12,360
the Vietnam well that at the moment was

1718
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:14,940
equivalent to the one that was used on

1719
01:23:20,630 --> 01:23:17,520
magazak you know and

1720
01:23:21,970 --> 01:23:20,640
18 or yeah 18 kilotons or something I

1721
01:23:24,770 --> 01:23:21,980
think was the same

1722
01:23:28,850 --> 01:23:24,780
there are different estimates it's

1723
01:23:32,030 --> 01:23:28,860
between 18 and 23 kilotons then it

1724
01:23:35,270 --> 01:23:32,040
flattened Nagasaki you know but ethnic

1725
01:23:39,189 --> 01:23:35,280
exactly and at Hiroshima after they

1726
01:23:42,370 --> 01:23:39,199
realized that the destruction at Trinity

1727
01:23:46,850 --> 01:23:42,380
including with civilian zones around

1728
01:23:49,910 --> 01:23:46,860
they reset the the altitude from above

1729
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:49,920
to detonate as you said to over 2 000

1730
01:23:54,770 --> 01:23:52,320
feet in order to minimize the

1731
01:23:57,410 --> 01:23:54,780
radioactivity I mean the radioactivity

1732
01:24:00,590 --> 01:23:57,420
is a side effect of the vote yeah the

1733
01:24:03,770 --> 01:24:00,600
boob Works essentially by creating an

1734
01:24:06,169 --> 01:24:03,780
instant temperature that's equivalent to

1735
01:24:07,310 --> 01:24:06,179
the the the temperature at the surface

1736
01:24:11,030 --> 01:24:07,320
of the Sun

1737
01:24:13,970 --> 01:24:11,040
with an extraordinary wind that is going

1738
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:13,980
to destroy any instruction okay that's

1739
01:24:18,770 --> 01:24:16,080
what it's designed to do it's not

1740
01:24:21,229 --> 01:24:18,780
designed to kill a lot of people by

1741
01:24:24,169 --> 01:24:21,239
radioactivity in the next you know

1742
01:24:26,510 --> 01:24:24,179
either right now or five years and 10

1743
01:24:29,649 --> 01:24:26,520
years and 20 years you know it's not

1744
01:24:32,209 --> 01:24:29,659
designed to do that so

1745
01:24:34,610 --> 01:24:32,219
I don't think the Japanese know that

1746
01:24:37,310 --> 01:24:34,620
they are going to discover that we just

1747
01:24:39,830 --> 01:24:37,320
signed a contract for uh which are very

1748
01:24:41,950 --> 01:24:39,840
problem for the Japanese edition of

1749
01:24:45,490 --> 01:24:41,960
Trinity and

1750
01:24:48,050 --> 01:24:45,500
I think that that is a very humbling

1751
01:24:50,649 --> 01:24:48,060
experience that the book will be read in

1752
01:24:54,110 --> 01:24:50,659
Japan yeah congratulations by the way

1753
01:24:55,850 --> 01:24:54,120
your your um as hard of a writer as you

1754
01:24:58,130 --> 01:24:55,860
are an investigator I know that you've

1755
01:25:01,070 --> 01:24:58,140
been writing books for a long time to

1756
01:25:02,810 --> 01:25:01,080
this Trinity yeah you love to write and

1757
01:25:04,610 --> 01:25:02,820
you'll be known for that definitely um

1758
01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:04,620
you mentioned earlier that you were an

1759
01:25:09,590 --> 01:25:08,159
outcast but you have become a Nikon and

1760
01:25:11,450 --> 01:25:09,600
that's that's something that you should

1761
01:25:13,910 --> 01:25:11,460
be proud of there's people like

1762
01:25:16,070 --> 01:25:13,920
ourselves that are huge fans of yours

1763
01:25:17,870 --> 01:25:16,080
that you know we've watched your career

1764
01:25:19,669 --> 01:25:17,880
and hope that they make a movie about

1765
01:25:22,189 --> 01:25:19,679
your life someday because I think it'd

1766
01:25:24,530 --> 01:25:22,199
be quite interesting uh you know yeah

1767
01:25:26,450 --> 01:25:24,540
you're you're a hero let's just put it

1768
01:25:28,490 --> 01:25:26,460
that way you are a person to look up to

1769
01:25:32,090 --> 01:25:28,500
and to emulate especially in this field

1770
01:25:34,729 --> 01:25:32,100
uh it's not like I said it's it's rare

1771
01:25:37,310 --> 01:25:34,739
to find somebody that has a humble view

1772
01:25:39,890 --> 01:25:37,320
of things and and humble personality as

1773
01:25:43,310 --> 01:25:39,900
well and it's refreshing you know the

1774
01:25:48,350 --> 01:25:43,320
real heroes are the the witnesses like

1775
01:25:51,410 --> 01:25:48,360
uh uh like Mr padillo like the the new

1776
01:25:56,990 --> 01:25:51,420
witness where we brought on and you know

1777
01:25:59,209 --> 01:25:57,000
and again uh you know I I went there to

1778
01:26:01,910 --> 01:25:59,219
interview a witness about what he had

1779
01:26:04,610 --> 01:26:01,920
seen especially what he had seen about

1780
01:26:07,129 --> 01:26:04,620
the the materials that were that were

1781
01:26:10,189 --> 01:26:07,139
left up to Trinity the fibers that were

1782
01:26:13,669 --> 01:26:10,199
growing in different different ways and

1783
01:26:16,070 --> 01:26:13,679
so on that we still don't understand I

1784
01:26:17,990 --> 01:26:16,080
mean it's not it's not an optical fiber

1785
01:26:21,310 --> 01:26:18,000
you know it's something else

1786
01:26:23,810 --> 01:26:21,320
and but when you go there people

1787
01:26:24,950 --> 01:26:23,820
yeah they are willing to talk about

1788
01:26:27,229 --> 01:26:24,960
Trinity

1789
01:26:30,709 --> 01:26:27,239
but they will tell you about what it did

1790
01:26:32,990 --> 01:26:30,719
to their families that they they opened

1791
01:26:36,890 --> 01:26:33,000
a drawer and they show you pictures of

1792
01:26:40,790 --> 01:26:36,900
the kids who died when they were 18 of

1793
01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:40,800
you know radioactivity radioactive you

1794
01:26:48,729 --> 01:26:43,760
know diseases uh

1795
01:26:51,610 --> 01:26:48,739
they and those families were decimated

1796
01:26:56,149 --> 01:26:51,620
for no reason

1797
01:26:59,169 --> 01:26:56,159
nobody wanted to admit it so uh you know

1798
01:27:02,689 --> 01:26:59,179
power Harris and I decided to

1799
01:27:06,290 --> 01:27:02,699
donate part of the wild things from this

1800
01:27:09,350 --> 01:27:06,300
book to an organization that supports

1801
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:09,360
the victims of Trinity victims of the

1802
01:27:18,649 --> 01:27:13,199
you know radioactive fallout

1803
01:27:19,610 --> 01:27:18,659
um because this was just so powerful I

1804
01:27:23,810 --> 01:27:19,620
mean

1805
01:27:26,830 --> 01:27:23,820
and uh it's it's more powerful than the

1806
01:27:30,890 --> 01:27:26,840
UFO or whatever it was

1807
01:27:33,410 --> 01:27:30,900
now again I I'm an information scientist

1808
01:27:35,870 --> 01:27:33,420
I'm not I I should not call myself a

1809
01:27:38,810 --> 01:27:35,880
physicist because physics have changed

1810
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:38,820
so much since I learned physics and I

1811
01:27:43,850 --> 01:27:42,000
haven't practiced you know physics in

1812
01:27:47,050 --> 01:27:43,860
the lab for a long time

1813
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:47,060
but uh you know I I'm

1814
01:27:53,590 --> 01:27:50,400
as current as you can be in computer

1815
01:27:57,129 --> 01:27:53,600
science and Ai and information science

1816
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:57,139
so what I look for are correlations

1817
01:28:04,250 --> 01:28:00,960
among different things you know

1818
01:28:07,310 --> 01:28:04,260
um and the here are the what's important

1819
01:28:11,209 --> 01:28:07,320
is to remember is a correlation between

1820
01:28:14,629 --> 01:28:11,219
Trinity Socorro and Valencia because

1821
01:28:18,410 --> 01:28:14,639
SoCo and valenzo are so

1822
01:28:21,709 --> 01:28:18,420
um so how I mean they are so so well

1823
01:28:23,950 --> 01:28:21,719
established you know again the witnesses

1824
01:28:27,169 --> 01:28:23,960
have been interviewed at the site

1825
01:28:29,149 --> 01:28:27,179
immediately after the observation when

1826
01:28:31,910 --> 01:28:29,159
the traces were there the traces could

1827
01:28:36,890 --> 01:28:31,920
be preserved they they were materials

1828
01:28:41,689 --> 01:28:36,900
recovered they were and in all or two

1829
01:28:44,990 --> 01:28:41,699
cases as in Trinity the object was oval

1830
01:28:47,870 --> 01:28:45,000
was about x-shaped or avocado shape and

1831
01:28:49,669 --> 01:28:47,880
the creatures were humanoid who could

1832
01:28:53,209 --> 01:28:49,679
breathe the air and they were pretty

1833
01:28:57,410 --> 01:28:53,219
tall now that you know there's a a

1834
01:29:02,330 --> 01:28:57,420
dollar of uh

1835
01:29:05,270 --> 01:29:02,340
what uh seven of them okay between the

1836
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:05,280
three and Trinity and and the the the

1837
01:29:11,450 --> 01:29:07,920
two at sokolo and the two Advantage so

1838
01:29:13,850 --> 01:29:11,460
so you know we have we have a strong

1839
01:29:16,490 --> 01:29:13,860
correlation there and that's how we're

1840
01:29:19,310 --> 01:29:16,500
going to make progress with this no one

1841
01:29:21,830 --> 01:29:19,320
case is to convince the Academy of

1842
01:29:23,870 --> 01:29:21,840
Sciences you know there is no no way

1843
01:29:26,090 --> 01:29:23,880
they'll say Well there must be something

1844
01:29:28,550 --> 01:29:26,100
you know telling us or there must be

1845
01:29:31,250 --> 01:29:28,560
something that uh there must be some

1846
01:29:33,350 --> 01:29:31,260
other element that hasn't been captured

1847
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:33,360
by the instrumental there must be

1848
01:29:38,090 --> 01:29:35,760
something here even the Nimitz I mean in

1849
01:29:40,490 --> 01:29:38,100
the Nimitz you know I've seen the

1850
01:29:41,450 --> 01:29:40,500
studies of the Nimitz I believe the

1851
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:41,460
pilots

1852
01:29:46,790 --> 01:29:44,639
uh I know what the instruments did but

1853
01:29:50,030 --> 01:29:46,800
half of the data is missing

1854
01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:50,040
you know at the limits

1855
01:29:55,129 --> 01:29:52,260
after it was all done

1856
01:29:56,270 --> 01:29:55,139
there was a brain that landed on the

1857
01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:56,280
deck

1858
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:59,280
two guys came out went to talk to the

1859
01:30:06,110 --> 01:30:01,440
captain

1860
01:30:10,490 --> 01:30:06,120
got all the data from all their radars

1861
01:30:13,850 --> 01:30:12,890
what what is that about where is the

1862
01:30:16,430 --> 01:30:13,860
data

1863
01:30:18,830 --> 01:30:16,440
I mean can we talk about the case

1864
01:30:21,590 --> 01:30:18,840
without that data you know I mean in

1865
01:30:24,290 --> 01:30:21,600
physics when he went to school the first

1866
01:30:29,330 --> 01:30:24,300
thing the teacher told you is you know

1867
01:30:32,149 --> 01:30:29,340
read them you know uh this story okay

1868
01:30:34,970 --> 01:30:32,159
read the wrong thing don't don't start

1869
01:30:38,390 --> 01:30:34,980
writing equations without reading what

1870
01:30:40,310 --> 01:30:38,400
we're asking you to do okay and that's

1871
01:30:42,830 --> 01:30:40,320
something you apply in science you want

1872
01:30:45,830 --> 01:30:42,840
all the data you can get well half of

1873
01:30:49,189 --> 01:30:45,840
the data is gone okay so it's gone

1874
01:30:53,390 --> 01:30:49,199
because in that I mean this there were

1875
01:30:56,510 --> 01:30:53,400
classified areas of Technology there so

1876
01:30:58,870 --> 01:30:56,520
I'm sure it's but there there are other

1877
01:31:00,590 --> 01:30:58,880
cases

1878
01:31:01,930 --> 01:31:00,600
where

1879
01:31:05,810 --> 01:31:01,940
um

1880
01:31:12,110 --> 01:31:08,750
and two officers show up

1881
01:31:14,870 --> 01:31:12,120
they show a credential to the the man

1882
01:31:16,970 --> 01:31:14,880
who was in charge at the time of the up

1883
01:31:19,610 --> 01:31:16,980
of the operation

1884
01:31:22,510 --> 01:31:19,620
they confiscate all the data and they

1885
01:31:27,890 --> 01:31:22,520
walk away with it well

1886
01:31:30,410 --> 01:31:27,900
data Above Top Secrets uh you do do it

1887
01:31:32,689 --> 01:31:30,420
like that you know it would be a little

1888
01:31:35,149 --> 01:31:32,699
too easy you know you and I could dress

1889
01:31:38,090 --> 01:31:35,159
up in some uniform and go there and

1890
01:31:42,709 --> 01:31:38,100
demand that the the data there are

1891
01:31:46,129 --> 01:31:42,719
papers to be signed by two people and to

1892
01:31:49,310 --> 01:31:46,139
be co-signed by the people who own the

1893
01:31:52,250 --> 01:31:49,320
data and are transmitting it and there

1894
01:31:55,310 --> 01:31:52,260
are credentials being shown okay

1895
01:31:58,189 --> 01:31:55,320
in those cases I don't know about the

1896
01:32:01,070 --> 01:31:58,199
limits but in the earlier cases I do

1897
01:32:04,010 --> 01:32:01,080
know that no credentials

1898
01:32:08,090 --> 01:32:04,020
I mean credentials were shown but no

1899
01:32:11,870 --> 01:32:08,100
paper Trace was left

1900
01:32:13,790 --> 01:32:11,880
okay this is incredible this is

1901
01:32:16,610 --> 01:32:13,800
impossible

1902
01:32:21,050 --> 01:32:16,620
you know so that means that there is a

1903
01:32:23,870 --> 01:32:21,060
structure somewhere that owns this

1904
01:32:25,729 --> 01:32:23,880
problem and when something happens that

1905
01:32:30,410 --> 01:32:25,739
relate to this problem

1906
01:32:33,729 --> 01:32:30,420
the the data goes somewhere where you

1907
01:32:37,550 --> 01:32:33,739
know uh suddenly people at my level

1908
01:32:41,450 --> 01:32:37,560
cannot cannot know what it is so

1909
01:32:44,510 --> 01:32:41,460
um you know I I salute the fact that

1910
01:32:47,810 --> 01:32:44,520
Congress is going to look into all

1911
01:32:53,330 --> 01:32:47,820
aspects of that I hope they take into

1912
01:32:55,550 --> 01:32:53,340
account uh cases before 1947 because it

1913
01:32:56,870 --> 01:32:55,560
didn't start that was well

1914
01:32:58,910 --> 01:32:56,880
yeah

1915
01:33:00,530 --> 01:32:58,920
and you know you brought up a good point

1916
01:33:02,149 --> 01:33:00,540
which we've mentioned before on the

1917
01:33:03,770 --> 01:33:02,159
podcast that you know you have this

1918
01:33:06,350 --> 01:33:03,780
organizations

1919
01:33:07,550 --> 01:33:06,360
that have always showed up and taken you

1920
01:33:09,649 --> 01:33:07,560
know evidence and stuff like that

1921
01:33:11,750 --> 01:33:09,659
doesn't give credentials they've always

1922
01:33:15,290 --> 01:33:11,760
done that since the you know as far as

1923
01:33:17,450 --> 01:33:15,300
we know from 1947 on uh and now we have

1924
01:33:19,669 --> 01:33:17,460
Congress putting together these uh you

1925
01:33:22,010 --> 01:33:19,679
know panels and and these groups

1926
01:33:23,689 --> 01:33:22,020
are they going to be battling these

1927
01:33:25,370 --> 01:33:23,699
other organizations that have been doing

1928
01:33:27,050 --> 01:33:25,380
this for so long like are they going to

1929
01:33:28,669 --> 01:33:27,060
be competing against these guys to get

1930
01:33:30,709 --> 01:33:28,679
the information like are they going to

1931
01:33:33,530 --> 01:33:30,719
show up first and collect it before

1932
01:33:36,410 --> 01:33:33,540
Congress appointed committee comes up

1933
01:33:37,910 --> 01:33:36,420
and and investigates themselves so I

1934
01:33:40,070 --> 01:33:37,920
think that's something to watch out for

1935
01:33:43,010 --> 01:33:40,080
in the future as well but what's very

1936
01:33:45,709 --> 01:33:43,020
hopeful is the the fact that something

1937
01:33:49,850 --> 01:33:45,719
that Dr heineck had always recommended

1938
01:33:51,950 --> 01:33:49,860
you know let the witnesses free to to

1939
01:33:53,990 --> 01:33:51,960
talk about what they've seen of course

1940
01:33:56,450 --> 01:33:54,000
you have to put guidelines around that

1941
01:33:59,990 --> 01:33:56,460
because they may have seen a classified

1942
01:34:03,470 --> 01:34:00,000
experiment right uh that

1943
01:34:05,870 --> 01:34:03,480
um you know he's properly closer and you

1944
01:34:09,770 --> 01:34:05,880
know so you have to respect those

1945
01:34:12,950 --> 01:34:09,780
boundaries but when when we know that it

1946
01:34:16,790 --> 01:34:12,960
was not a you know like a classified

1947
01:34:19,850 --> 01:34:16,800
experiment uh that our confidential

1948
01:34:23,209 --> 01:34:19,860
experiment that belongs to a company I

1949
01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:23,219
mean you know companies have industrial

1950
01:34:29,149 --> 01:34:25,260
Secrets somebody could have seen

1951
01:34:32,330 --> 01:34:29,159
something and uh it legally and properly

1952
01:34:35,270 --> 01:34:32,340
has to be depicted and Congress I think

1953
01:34:39,590 --> 01:34:35,280
well are buying that that protection is

1954
01:34:42,229 --> 01:34:39,600
is valid but what about the cases where

1955
01:34:44,689 --> 01:34:42,239
you know one another case like glonnie

1956
01:34:48,410 --> 01:34:44,699
Zamora where obviously what he saw

1957
01:34:50,990 --> 01:34:48,420
wasn't one of ours and you know the the

1958
01:34:54,229 --> 01:34:51,000
Air Force came out and said well you

1959
01:34:57,430 --> 01:34:54,239
know yeah it's not it's not something we

1960
01:35:00,950 --> 01:34:57,440
can do yeah the pilots aren't even ours

1961
01:35:02,750 --> 01:35:00,960
right they were little guys yeah

1962
01:35:04,850 --> 01:35:02,760
uh Louis do you have any final questions

1963
01:35:06,530 --> 01:35:04,860
for our guest today no but I do want to

1964
01:35:08,270 --> 01:35:06,540
do something cool here I want to do a

1965
01:35:09,530 --> 01:35:08,280
little toast because it is our 100th

1966
01:35:11,149 --> 01:35:09,540
episode

1967
01:35:13,129 --> 01:35:11,159
um again we don't it's a lot of hard

1968
01:35:15,229 --> 01:35:13,139
work to get there and I think it's

1969
01:35:17,990 --> 01:35:15,239
because of our viewers and listeners

1970
01:35:19,970 --> 01:35:18,000
that have been dedicated followed us and

1971
01:35:22,129 --> 01:35:19,980
the caliber of the guests and gentlemen

1972
01:35:24,229 --> 01:35:22,139
like Monsieur Jacques valet they speak

1973
01:35:26,990 --> 01:35:24,239
for themselves and we pride ourselves

1974
01:35:30,169 --> 01:35:27,000
very highly on that uh it's easy to just

1975
01:35:32,570 --> 01:35:30,179
do a show easier it's very difficult to

1976
01:35:34,970 --> 01:35:32,580
consistently get people that are busy

1977
01:35:37,250 --> 01:35:34,980
and writing books and attending

1978
01:35:39,649 --> 01:35:37,260
conferences in Saudi Arabia so for them

1979
01:35:41,930 --> 01:35:39,659
to give us a little bit of their time it

1980
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:41,940
touches us to our hearts so you got

1981
01:35:46,669 --> 01:35:44,400
something to drink Jay I do I do all

1982
01:35:49,990 --> 01:35:46,679
right we got a little champagne grade uh

1983
01:35:53,149 --> 01:35:50,000
um ginger ale here so

1984
01:35:55,669 --> 01:35:53,159
California sparkling water you love it

1985
01:35:58,550 --> 01:35:55,679
nice so this is to another 100 episodes

1986
01:36:00,890 --> 01:35:58,560
to all our fans all our guests and to Mr

1987
01:36:06,530 --> 01:36:00,900
valet cheers

1988
01:36:11,750 --> 01:36:08,410
Jacques you're welcome on this podcast

1989
01:36:13,129 --> 01:36:11,760
anytime you want you call us up at two

1990
01:36:16,310 --> 01:36:13,139
o'clock in the morning you want to do a

1991
01:36:18,470 --> 01:36:16,320
podcast we'll do it absolutely it's been

1992
01:36:20,510 --> 01:36:18,480
a pleasure for sure and thanks again and

1993
01:36:22,370 --> 01:36:20,520
Chuck where can people get your book uh

1994
01:36:25,570 --> 01:36:22,380
Trinity

1995
01:36:28,850 --> 01:36:25,580
um on Amazon Amazon

1996
01:36:32,990 --> 01:36:28,860
perfect on Amazon if you put the title

1997
01:36:35,510 --> 01:36:33,000
in my name uh and again it's co-authored

1998
01:36:39,050 --> 01:36:35,520
with power that Paula Harris who had

1999
01:36:42,830 --> 01:36:39,060
started that that study and brought me

2000
01:36:45,410 --> 01:36:42,840
in uh after three or four years of the

2001
01:36:48,530 --> 01:36:45,420
the initial study brought me in to look

2002
01:36:50,870 --> 01:36:48,540
at the more technical aspects and look

2003
01:36:52,850 --> 01:36:50,880
at the correlations as well nice we had

2004
01:36:54,950 --> 01:36:52,860
Paola on a few episodes back so it's

2005
01:36:56,990 --> 01:36:54,960
nice to have you both both on the

2006
01:36:58,310 --> 01:36:57,000
program it's awesome Jacques valet thank

2007
01:37:00,770 --> 01:36:58,320
you so much for your time and thank you

2008
01:37:02,030 --> 01:37:00,780
for coming on UAP studies today thank

2009
01:37:05,860 --> 01:37:02,040
you

2010
01:37:16,040 --> 01:37:13,990
[Music]